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Owner Properties in Vietnam

B
#1
We had a discussion with one of our expat member here. I would need advice on foreigners owning properties. I was told we cant any properties?

It that so? When my wife bought a piece of land in Danang. I was ask to sign a document stating that I don't have any claims to the pieces of land that my wife bought.

Its this the law in Vietnam? :(
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ben_songg
#2
As far as I am concern, foreigner is not entitled for any landed property and that's why even if you and your wife is buying land together also you cant set your name and required to sign the letter as you mentioned. Foreigner are only entitled for only 1 strata title property for 50years with certain value and above. cheers.
1 member reacted to this post
hELLnoi
#3
.. as if you can take that piece of dirt with you if you decided to leave...
2 members reacted to this post
B
#4
Very true! If I leave..Thanks guys!..:)
Adrian_79
#5
I can confirm this. After our second apartment had to put it in my wife's name and sign some document renouncing my claim. On the bright side in Vietnam if one spouse wants to sell their property they will need the others signature no matter what. Same with buying. The officer will always ask to see single status letter in any land transaction. So even though it is under your Vietnamese wife's name, the land office will want you to be present as well to sign aknowledgement. Actually this law is quite good. Protect both parties.
3 members reacted to this post
B
#6
Actually it really means that your name is not on the deed. They cant say you dont have claim to it if you paid for it, its just that your name wont appear on any paperwork. Hopefully the VN government will see that its citizens are allowed to own property in other countries, so they should do the same and stop with this ridiculous idea that foreigners are going to steal Viet Nam
laidbackfreak
#7
Of course all that is about change next month, when the new law states any foreigner with a visa over 3 months, can purchase property here in Vietnam.

So for those expats with Vietnamese partners, it may be time to draw up a new agreement.
1 member reacted to this post
B
#8
LBF, Im sure the government will have some clauses to make it as hard as possible, I remember the VAT claims at the airport, it was a nightmare just to get the money back from the government
1 member reacted to this post
charmavietnam
#9
Need to think carefully that 'do we need to take the snake from the fence and keep in our shoulder':D
B
#10
I must say that real estate in Viet Nam is so over priced its mind boggling. I too have looked at property here, mainly for the reason that I want to have a place to call home and able to do changes to the premises. Viet Nam has to get rid of the us and them mentality, its changing slowly, but it will still take a long time before the old mindset is removed.

I know it will be a good thing for Viet Nam, the only problem is where will the taxes go from the property sales, into someones pocket or back to the government to create infastructure that is badly needed.
Sploke77
#11
You may be the one coming out with large part of the funding but your name does not appear anywhere on the title deeds. So, if the wife kicks you out, or disowns you, you are finished! In this sense, we expats are literally under their 'mercy'. Pray you have one that has integrity..
3 members reacted to this post
B
#12
Actually, there is a way around that. You have a document made by the lawyer to show you supplied the funds to buy a propety, if the wife doesnt sign it, then dont go ahead or you will lose your money.
hELLnoi
#13
how many times have we repeated this mistake of interpreting what we think the Vietnamese law should be?
If any of you are familiar with the law, any instrument (deeds/contracts signed) which defrauds the law is illegal and unenforceable in the Courts of Law!
Currently, the Land Laws is clear to DISALLOW any foreigners to OWN any LAND! You may think you can go around THE issue with your creative contracts.
THE ISSUE IS NO LAND CAN BE UNDER FOREIGN OWNERSHIP, AT THE MOMENT, UNTIL THE LAW IS CHANGED.
All Land Ownership reverts to the People after 50 years!
khanh44
#14
How many foreigners/viet kieus have purchased(leased) land/house themselves since they allowed foreigners to lease land for 50 years?

That is your answer.
B
#15
Hell, my point wasnt that you will own the land as a expat, but the fact that the money to pay for that land was yours.Therefore having a contract with your wife signed and chopped, it can be used in court as has been done previously. There is a case in Saigon at the moment, the guy is chasing 6 million USD that his former wife seems to think is now hers, but she cant show where she obtained 6 million USD.
hELLnoi
#16

colinoscapee wrote:

Hell, my point wasnt that you will own the land as a expat, but the fact that the money to pay for that land was yours.Therefore having a contract with your wife signed and chopped, it can be used in court as has been done previously. There is a case in Saigon at the moment, the guy is chasing 6 million USD that his former wife seems to think is now hers, but she cant show where she obtained 6 million USD.


In a court of law, there are TWO separate contracts.
1. Purchase and Ownership of the Land.
Any lawyer will tell you that if your name is not on the dotted line, you are NOT the owner.
2. A contract between a husband and wife to loan her funds.
(the purpose will be void if the esscence of the contract is illegal). Accordingly, the husband will have to sue his wife for the repayment of the loan.
There is NO automatic entitlement to the OWNERSHIP of the Land.
The wife will have to dispose of the Land to get the cash to return the husband.
There is NOTHING the husband can do to force the sale of the Land聽 if the wife chooses so.
However, the wife can get a retraining order to keep her husband from being near her.
*A property loses its value very fast where there is a legal case connected.

B
#17
Ok, I will contact the laywers here in Saigon and tell them that you said it wont work.
hELLnoi
#18

colinoscapee wrote:

Ok, I will contact the laywers here in Saigon and tell them that you said it wont work.


The lawyers in Vietnam will assure you that is a way, and take your money
sadly, you will be a TWO time loser聽 :)

B
#19
Ok, we will have to agree to disagree.

I did ask my lady,she works as the deputy manager of a bank and is in charge of land titles, she said of course its legal, but as with everything here, it all comes down to who you deal with as there is no uniform to laws here.I will also make sure my European educated lawyer brushes up on the latest laws.
hELLnoi
#20

colinoscapee wrote:

Ok, we will have to agree to disagree.

I did ask my lady,she works as the deputy manager of a bank and is in charge of land titles, she said of course its legal, but as with everything here, it all comes down to who you deal with as there is no uniform to laws here.I will also make sure my European educated lawyer brushes up on the latest laws.


there are no uniform laws here
:cheers::cheers::cheers:

1 member reacted to this post
B
#21
And that is the problem in Viet Nam, what happens in one place can not be expected in another.
Tran Hung Dao
#22

colinoscapee wrote:

Hell, my point wasnt that you will own the land as a expat, but the fact that the money to pay for that land was yours.Therefore having a contract with your wife signed and chopped, it can be used in court as has been done previously. There is a case in Saigon at the moment, the guy is chasing 6 million USD that his former wife seems to think is now hers, but she cant show where she obtained 6 million USD.


I know that case.聽 Rich American marries Vietnamese model.聽 They live in the USA but he buys land, houses, cars, etc. in Vietnam but puts it all in her name since she is a Vietnamese citizen.聽 They divorced and she ran back to Vietnam to enjoy all her free stuff!聽 He's pissed and trying to go to court and get those things back.

Here's the newspaper article



Tragic comedy.

hELLnoi
#23

Tran Hung Dao wrote:
colinoscapee wrote:

Hell, my point wasnt that you will own the land as a expat, but the fact that the money to pay for that land was yours.Therefore having a contract with your wife signed and chopped, it can be used in court as has been done previously. There is a case in Saigon at the moment, the guy is chasing 6 million USD that his former wife seems to think is now hers, but she cant show where she obtained 6 million USD.


I know that case.聽 Rich American marries Vietnamese model.聽 They live in the USA but he buys land, houses, cars, etc. in Vietnam but puts it all in her name since she is a Vietnamese citizen.聽 They divorced and she ran back to Vietnam to enjoy all her free stuff!聽 He's pissed and trying to go to court and get those things back.
Here's the newspaper article


Tragic comedy.


and what jurisdiction does a court outside Vietnam has over properties in Vietnam?
Frankly, this is what I expect a clever Vietnamese lawyer to advise!

B
#24
Will be interesting to see the new decree, Im sure it will be complicated as usual.
B
#25
Maybe a good question to ask someone who practises international law.
Tran Hung Dao
#26

colinoscapee wrote:

I must say that real estate in Viet Nam is so over priced its mind boggling. I too have looked at property here, mainly for the reason that I want to have a place to call home and able to do changes to the premises. ..


Are you just looking at metro areas?  Vũng T脿u and Hồ Ch铆 Minh City?  It's just the law of supply and demand.  As more people flock to cities, the prices will skyrocket. 

Have you looked in the countryside?  Or out in the province where you can still make trips to into the city for the conveniences?

I find anything under 1 million VND/ sq. meter to be a good deal.  In urban areas they want at least 3 million/sq. meter and some condo projects, they want 20 million / sq. meter.

You get more bang for your buck out in the countryside.

B
#27
The problem is that my lady has a managerial job and needs to be close to Saigon. We looked in Cu Chi last weekend, but that was still too far for her to travel each day. Even Cu Chi is 2.5 -3 trieu per sqmt, and that was 33 klms from D1.
Tran Hung Dao
#28

colinoscapee wrote:

The problem is that my lady has a managerial job and needs to be close to Saigon. We looked in Cu Chi last weekend, but that was still too far for her to travel each day. Even Cu Chi is 2.5 -3 trieu per sqmt, and that was 33 klms from D1.


Yah, you're stuck then.聽 Might just try renting a house in some alley in the city.

B
#29
I lived in Saigon for 5 years, and dont like the traffic and pollution. Thats why we were looking at the outskirts of town.So just have to wait and see what happens in the future.
Tran Hung Dao
#30

hELLnoi wrote:

and what jurisdiction does a court outside Vietnam has over properties in Vietnam?
Frankly, this is what I expect a clever Vietnamese lawyer to advise!


The California (USA) courts had jurisdiction over the divorce case since the coupled lived in California.  They ordered the wife to return the properties to the husband.

The only problem is, the properties in Vietnam is under the wife's name and when she ran back to Vietnam, the California courts lost enforcement of the divorce decree.  This is what the People's Court in Vietnam is also asking about as well.

According to An, at their divorce hearing in California, a court ordered Thuy to return all the property to him because he bought it with his own money. She hasn聮t followed the order, but transferred the property to her mother and others, he said.

I think the Vietnamese court will side with the Vietnamese citizen due to the fact that nothing is in the husband's name.

B
#31
Yes, most probably thats the way it will go, but at some time a precedent will be set as with all changes in law.
Tran Hung Dao
#32

colinoscapee wrote:

I lived in Saigon for 5 years, and dont like the traffic and pollution. Thats why we were looking at the outskirts of town.So just have to wait and see what happens in the future.


This past weekend, I just went from Vũng T脿u to the Big City but I didn't go via the traditional QL51 to QL1A (H脿 Nội Highway).  Instead, I went through Nhơn Trạch.  Have you heard of this place?

Besides a huge industrial park there, it's very country-ish.  The air was nice and little traffic outside the factory shift change hours.  There's a ferry at the end of the road that took you to the Big City.  And they're building some new roads there that links you to D1...via under the S脿i G貌n River tunnel. 

I would think this might be an alternative for you to explore.

You get the fresh air and your wife/lady gets a commutable distance.  I'm not sure about real estate prices but I would venture it'd be reasonable due to its country/agricultural setting.

B
#33
Yes, I know that area, the ferry is the Cat Lai ferry. The only problem there is that the ferry closes at a certain hour so you must get there in time or be stuck in Cat Lai
Tran Hung Dao
#34

colinoscapee wrote:

Yes, I know that area, the ferry is the Cat Lai ferry. The only problem there is that the ferry closes at a certain hour so you must get there in time or be stuck in Cat Lai


Hmm..wait a moment.聽 I think there's a new bridge just north of this ferry.聽 I remember cruising around the area...not positive.聽 Let me check some more but I thought there was a way across the river past D2 and still get to Nh啤n Tr岷h without using that ferry.

B
#35
As far as I know you cant, the Cat Lai ferry is the only way across directly.
Tran Hung Dao
#36

Tran Hung Dao wrote:
colinoscapee wrote:

Yes, I know that area, the ferry is the Cat Lai ferry. The only problem there is that the ferry closes at a certain hour so you must get there in time or be stuck in Cat Lai


Hmm..wait a moment.聽 I think there's a new bridge just north of this ferry.聽 I remember cruising around the area...not positive.聽 Let me check some more but I thought there was a way across the river past D2 and still get to Nh啤n Tr岷h without using that ferry.


Okay, my mistake.聽 I don't see any bridges on the map.聽 Must have been the time I was Lima Lima Mike Foxtrot.

B
#37
Maybe you were thinking of the Phu My bridge that goes from D7 over to Cat Lai.
Tran Hung Dao
#38

colinoscapee wrote:

As far as I know you cant, the Cat Lai ferry is the only way across directly.


Aha....ok, there's a new "freeway" (what we call it in the States), going through that has a new bridge over the river north of the ferry.聽 But it's only for 4 wheelers (automobiles/cars/trucks/busses) because of the high speed.聽 So no motorbikes.聽

Here's the map - look at the red line.

B
#39
If Im correct that is the road that will end at Ho Tram casino.
Tran Hung Dao
#40

colinoscapee wrote:

If Im correct that is the road that will end at Ho Tram casino.


No, The Hồ Tr脿m Casino Resort is in B脿 Rịa-Vũng T脿u Province near the coast.  QL55 takes you there.

This freeway links up with QL20 (Đ脿 Lạt Highway) as well as the QL1A going to Phan Thiết.

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