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Police Residence Registration

G
#1
Hi everyone

We moved into an apartment in a tower building in Binh Chanh a few weeks ago.
The landlords are Vietnamese people who just bought this apartment. We are their first renter.
That's why we recently asked them if they registered us with the police.
They said no they didn't. They didn't know they had to do this.
So we went to the local police (they have a desk in the tower building) and wanted to register.
However, the police told us that only the landlord can do this.
The police also told us that we have to pay a fine because we registered too late.
My Vietnamese wife has to pay a fine of 400k Dong and I (foreigner) have to pay a fine of 4 million Dong.
However, they give us another week to register before we must pay the fine.
Now we hope that the landlord registers us within one week.

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this before?
Is a fine of 4 million dong usual for such things or am I fleeced by the police?
See also
eileengu
#2
register with police? Is this a "must" choice when renting an apartment?
G
#3

eileengu wrote:

register with police? Is this a "must" choice when renting an apartment?


Yes. Usually the landlord has to do this.
But it seems that not all landlords know about it.

M
#4
My landlord,聽 similar to urs,聽 a first timer,聽 tried to register with the police.


They told him to come back three days later.聽 ( ur supposed to register within 24 hrs,聽 even Vietnamese)聽

Then basically,聽 security guards,聽 lots of police in this building,聽 nobody bothers registering.聽 It's overlooked in this central ward.


Now I need a crim rec check. My fiend needs a passport renewal.

U need this freaking temporary registration certificate


Wouldn't surprise me at all if the police have just been lying to everyone so they can steal huge fines from them later.

Welcome to vietscam
1 member reacted to this post
eileengu
#5
just wondering if I bought an apartment and I live in my own flat, should I register with police as a foreigner? I just plan to live in this city.
G
#6

eileengu wrote:

just wondering if I bought an apartment and I live in my own flat, should I register with police as a foreigner? I just plan to live in this city.


I think if you buy an apartment and get the pink book, the police will know about your residence.聽 :)

eileengu
#7
Thanks :)
G
#8

Andy Passenger wrote:
eileengu wrote:

register with police? Is this a "must" choice when renting an apartment?


Yes. Usually the landlord has to do this.
But it seems that not all landlords know about it.


They all know, they just dont want to fork out the money to the green mafia.

QuidProQuo
#9
As a foreigner you are not required to registered with the local ward. There's a that your landlord can fill out online to register for you. As for your spouse who is a local she would have to do that on her own. Most landlord don't do this either they're lazy or just don't care. Either way unless something goes wrong in your apartment complex they don't often check. If I were you demand the landlord to deduct the fines from your monthly rent.
1 member reacted to this post
melvin houghton
#10
Hi All I am moving to Ho Chi Minh city in July for a聽 couple of years maybe permanent and am looking for long term rent 2 bedroom apartment possible swimming pool

regards Melvin Houghton
G
#11

melvin houghton wrote:

Hi All I am moving to Ho Chi Minh city in July for a聽 couple of years maybe permanent and am looking for long term rent 2 bedroom apartment possible swimming pool

regards Melvin Houghton


Do you know what area you want to live?

melvin houghton
#12
I think district聽 2
G
#13

melvin houghton wrote:

I think district聽 2


Well if you are referring to Thao Dien D2, its one of the most expensive places to live in Saigon.
There are numerous sites on Facebook for rentals.

melvin houghton
#14
thank you for your quick reply
R
#15
It's free and the landlord has to do it.
If not, the fine is for the landlord, not for the tenant.
1 member reacted to this post
G
#16

rickvn wrote:

It's free and the landlord has to do it.
If not, the fine is for the landlord, not for the tenant.


Where is it written?
If the policeman would insist on the fine, I can hardly refer him to you.聽 :)

But now seriously, the Vietnamese landlord has just bought this apartment and did not know what to do. After he informed himself, he told us that he had to wait for the pink book to be able to register us with the police. But in a few days everything should be done.

G
#17

Andy Passenger wrote:
rickvn wrote:

It's free and the landlord has to do it.
If not, the fine is for the landlord, not for the tenant.


Where is it written?
If the policeman would insist on the fine, I can hardly refer him to you.聽 :)

But now seriously, the Vietnamese landlord has just bought this apartment and did not know what to do. After he informed himself, he told us that he had to wait for the pink book to be able to register us with the police. But in a few days everything should be done.


Rickvn is correct, it's the landlord's problem, as they must be registered with the ward police before entering into a contract.

Your landlord should not be renting until they have the proper paperwork.

Ciambella
#18
Ditto.聽 It's not the tenant's responsibility to register, the onus falls on the landlord and so would the fine.

And yes, without the pink book, the place shouldn't be opened for business.聽 Some landlords try to skirt around the law by renting their units by the day with the hope that the tenants are in and out before anyone notices.
G
#19
Than you for the information.

Ciambella wrote:

Some landlords try to skirt around the law by renting their units by the day with the hope that the tenants are in and out before anyone notices.


In our case, the police knew about us.聽 :)
In the opinion to meet the new owner here they rang the doorbell and brought documents for the new owner.

H
#20
Foreigners cannot register themselves with the local police.聽 That is the landlord's job, and the landlord should pay the fine.
M
#21
Hi guys

This seems like its not a big deal but it can be. They probably won't keep increasing the fine over time, which does seem to vary in any case...I won't comment on that. However, as someone mentioned, when you need certain other documents, later on, you might very well find that you needed this registration as proof of your residence or police record. In my tenancies, I always paid the bills but they were billed to the owner. So when you're applying for residence visas in other countries, for example, after living here, then you might be missing one proof of residence (some require 2 proofs from all previous residencies in the past 3 to 5 years). You might also need a police record in your previous country, and you have no police record if there is no evidence of residency. So don't get caught out on this, the sooner the better. I always ask for this before I sign the lease so they know they have to do it. Please note though the systems constantly change and this system could be made obsolete at any time. Registration on line is definitely new.
N
#22
Landlords know all about registration but do not want to do it because the income they receive is taxed, that is why they don't do it.
Dr. G
#23
Most police districts or precincts are different from one another in that what one police facility regulates as their policy may be different and even inconsistent with the police policies within another location. For example what you have experienced where you reside is totally contrary to the police policy where I reside in District 2. I am allowed to register on my own behalf and have done so throughout the last 5 years. Upon returning to Vietnam following a temporary but sometimes extended departure, I have, at times, re-registered perhaps 4- 6 weeks (late) following my return. However, on none of those occasions was I ever assessed or required to pay a penalty fee. So, while I believe what your own personal experience has been, never-the-less, it may not be that common throughout Vietnam yet for you - unfortunate.
1 member reacted to this post
M
#24
I agree with Dr. G-- I think its different based on different districts as well, and possibly even depending on the ward. Like many VN regulations....apparently open to interpretation
Dr. G
#25
Well stated, exactly right - interpretation
G
#26

nick4946 wrote:

Landlords know all about registration but do not want to do it because the income they receive is taxed, that is why they don't do it.


Sounds plausible.

M
#27
I was told many times that those two govt departments don't have any communication. Some landlords might be fearful but their fear so far is groundless. But you are right in so far as this might affect聽 the actions of people who fear any paper trail.
G
#28
The local snitch usually informs the police about who is living in their area. The police then do a check to see if the place is registered for foreigners. Sometimes you can get away with no registration, depends if you get dobbed in by the snitch.
R
#29
When we first began renting a house in D7 four-and-half years ago, we threw a street food party together with the departing owner. Everyone in the street turned up with a bottle of wine (the heavier the bottle, the better), and a former government minister at the end of the street (Lexusus and 5-series BMWs out the front) came with a bottle of Glenfiddich. Two weeks later I was away for work and my (Australian) wife called in panic at 10pm to say there was a cop at the door and someone in plain clothes (neighbourhood watch/Colinoscapee's snitch perhaps?) to ask who we were and why we hadn't registered (she doesn't speak Vietnamese and they spoke no English, but that seemed to be the gist of it). I told her to refer them to our agent. They went away and she called the agent to ask what she should do if they came back. "Don't open the door," was the reply. Great! Anyway, it all got sorted out in the following days. But yes, the owner/landlord/agent should look after this. Insist if they don't because otherwise, as several people have said, you can't do other official things without that pink book entry -- and make sure you get them to update this every time you get a visa extension.
1 member reacted to this post
Anthony64
#30
I've lived in Vietnam nearly 15 years...several places from Hanoi to Saigon.聽 I've never paid a bribe to any VN official...never.聽 This is also called the old 'coffee money' that many end up paying.聽 I shook my head, told them to take a hike, go to hell and have taken pictures of their face and name tags.聽 In Saigon, I had 8 government personnel at my doorstep the first time..with the manager at 1 am.聽 They all wanted to enter and I put my foot at the bottom of the door.聽 I allowed the major and the manager in and forced the door shut behind them.聽
They wanted to see my passport, visa, and my girlfriend's information.聽 I with a high voice told the manager that she and I had gone to the local police together, they have a copy, you have a copy of everything in your office and that I did not appreciate the police pounding on my door at 1 am.聽 I told the two to leave and if they wanted me to do anything I would gladly visit the station after 0800 hrs. Took all of 5 minutes.聽 聽I opened the door and told the two to leave.聽 the next morning, the manager said no one has ever talked to them like that.聽 I told him I was not going to be shaken down by anyone.聽 I did not have to go anywhere and all was ok.聽 Lived there for another 3 years and never saw another cop again.
1 member reacted to this post
THIGV
#31
I had a similar experience at our first residence which was a house rather than an apartment.聽 A fairly sizeable group of officials showed up, some not in uniform.聽 It was daytime and my wife was not home.聽 None of them spoke much English but I remember the word "donation" was used.聽 My response was to write the landlady's name and phone number on a piece of paper and give it to them.聽 It worked fine.聽 聽As the registration obligation actually belongs to the landlord,聽 they had no basis of complaint with me.聽 I doubt that they ever went to see her.
QuidProQuo
#32
Unless you committed a capital crime you are more likely to be let off with petty offenses such as non registration. The government wants to have a cordial relation with western countries so expats are often being left alone. At least in major districts. The po-po knows better not to mess with the gringos living in these areas. Can鈥檛 speak for those who live in the boonies however.
G
#33
I agree with Dr. G, too.

When I lived in D1 I had to present a certified confirmation of residence for my home country (for me and my wife).

When the landlord had still not registered us after one month, we took things into our own hands.

Even finding the right police station was a challenge.
And then at the police station only one woman who was only there for 2 hours in the afternoon could help us (the men were always busy drinking coffee and watching videos).
The woman told us that we had not yet been registered and that the landlord had to bring the form "膼茽N XIN X脕C NH岷琋 T岷燤 TR脷" and for my wife the form "膼茽N XIN X脕C NH岷琋 L漂U L漂U TR脷" together with our passport copies.
One month later the landlord managed to register us with the police and hand over us the above mentioned forms (stamped by the police).
Then we had to take the forms stamped by the police to the FSC on Pasteur Street for legalization and translation.
At FSC they told us that they had to take consultation the police first, which could take several weeks.

But then we moved to the D2.

The former landlord of D1 called us about 2 weeks later and informed us that the police had appeared in his apartment house to check our attendance. But we already moved to D2. :lol:

At the new location in D2, we had to push the landlord again 3 weeks to register us with the police.
1 weeks later we got the forms, stamped by the police (this time the same form for me and my wife).
And surprising, the FSC legalized and聽 translated these forms without any questions (in opposit as in D1).

And then in Binh Chanh, where we no longer needed a residence confirmation for my home country and we therefore did not care much about the police registration, the police threatens us with fines.
Meanwhile, the landlord has talked to the police and told us that if there was a fine he would take it. Let's get surprised!聽 :)

In my opinion, this is not only interpretation (as Dr. G said), but also avoidance of work, unknowingness and arbitrariness.


Many thanks for all information and advices.
Ciambella
#34
I had only one encounter with a reluctant manager (not landlord) who didn't want to register us in a timely manner.聽

He lied to me by saying C么ng An Ph瓢峄漬g didn't want to stamp one registration at a time so he had to wait to rent out all units in the building before taking a bunch of paperwork down to them.聽 I lied right back, "It doesn't matter to me when you do it.聽 However, without proof of residence, I can't open a bank account.聽 Without a bank account to transfer money from the States, I can't pay next month's rent.聽 Your choice."

We had a copy of our stamped registration the next afternoon.
3 members reacted to this post
1312j
#35
Am I right in thinking that registration has to be done each time you get a new visa? My landlord hasn't sorted anything out in three months and it effects our working contracts.

Is it suitable grounds for termination of the rental agreement (we are looking to move anyway)? There's a clause within the contract which says the landlord has to register us and further on it says the contract can be terminated if anything from article six isn't followed.
Ciambella
#36
It should be, but I have a feeling that as soon as you tell them of your decision and the cause to terminate the contract, the registration will appear the next day.聽 聽As they rectify the problem, albeit late, and you still want to move, it would be difficult to get your deposit back.聽 Unless you can show concrete proof that you lost part of your salary due to the absence of registration.
1 member reacted to this post
1312j
#37
No loss of salary has been incurred as of yet, however, I do have proof that I have asked several times for it and nothing has been done.
Anthony64
#38
They also worry about TAX's...Most all like to do business 'under the table'.聽 I even had a perspective landlord write up a contract for 3 million Dong per month, but wanted me to pay him 7 million per month.聽 Needless to say, I did not go any further with that.聽 Most all Vietnamese fear 'authority'...they are taught to not ask questions or do anything to cause a stir.聽 I always do the just the opposite and loudly as well.
Many of the 'officers' don't know the rules or understand them...it is different in almost every other neighborhood.聽 If you demand them to show you proof of what is needed...they always back down.
vptd
#39
I lived in Thao Dien for 4 years and was married to a VN lady. The Landlords (we lived at HAGL and moved 3 times within the complex) never approached us about registering however my wife at the time along with myself and my Aussie stepson would attend to the local Police Station in Anh Phu and fill out the Register, never any trouble nor any mention of fines but that may be because we invited the police along for a beer or two and dinner..either way it was never an issue. If its a requirement simply it needs to be done, just like obtaining a Vietnamese Car and or Motor bike license...
RachelDesigns
#40
Hi,
When聽 I went to move into one house,they wanted 15 million and once I had signed that contract, they came up asking me to sign a contract for 6million. This rung alarm bells, so I kept asking why? After several conversations they told me it was down to the amount of tax they would have had to pay.
So I pulled out and was very lucky the landlady was lovely, she returned my deposit! I took a copy of the different contracts though as back up!
I then got the phone call from the pushy Estate agent screaming saying he was going to inform her that she didn't return my deposit, luckily she did.
So I read up on all the laws and truly it comes down ( even if they say they didn鈥檛 know!) TAX.
I am now renting a house in Da Nang, I have been here 3weeks and I still don鈥檛 even have a contract. I was supposed to sign it the day I moved I but I still don鈥檛 have one, she won鈥檛 even write that I paid her 45million, she is now avoiding me so I鈥檓 going to her work tomorrow as i have to renew my visa next week and don鈥檛 know whether I can put the address down. I'm shacking my head in disbelief as I now know so much better, my heart took over because I love the house.
Does anyone have any ideas on how to tackle this lady,聽 no pun intended ?
I have spent the last week in bloody hospital, I gave my address, I just really hope I don鈥檛 have the police here, I live alone and not really met any other expats or Vietnamese yet! It would frighten me.

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