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If UK were to leave the EU?

GuestPoster566
#1
I know that UK ex pats are not the only group here but I was wondering what any may be thinking if UK were to leave the EU.
Once again this subject has reared its head and it could be used as a very powerful political tool to keep a certain party in power in the next period of Government in the UK.
Do any of you have any concerns?
See also
Toon
#2
nope not until i am ready to receive my UK state pension
GuestPoster566
#3
So, once residency is secured in Malta there should be no threat to living there? (I understand about the pension).
Toon
#4
The only issue i can think of maybe a health related one if retired and /or not working....but then there is always private healthcare. if working those guys would get the local healthcare via SSC payments
GuestPoster566
#5
Health care is what I am concerned about. This could of course just be political manEUverings :) so it may be a bridge we do not have to cross.
Toon
#6
it is my only concern if either or both leave the EU...we all get older and health issues will inevitably occur....but as i have 10-11 yrs to go till pension age am not too worried yet....
tearnet
#7
If the UK left the EU I doubt it would have much impact on expats.聽 Most of the reciprocal agreements ie healthcare, tax etc were in place before the current EU structure and would I am sure remain. It is a two way street with these agreements and there are lots of EU聽 expats in the UK who benefit from the current pension and tax system. These agreements are also not limited to the EU but include lots of ex empire countries.

Terry
GuestPoster566
#8
Thank you that's reassuring.
ricky
#9
As you say Terry it is a two way street!

You go into the EU and you get all the EU goodies like 'right to free movement and work' , right to residency in your EU country of choice and so on.

You leave the EU , you loose these perks and find yourself in the same situation as a third-country national.

Of course those of us who have been in Malta for more than 5 years have聽 entitlement to permanent residency but I'm sure it would impact newcomers or even make relocation to Malta very difficult.

Whether EU countries and Malta would still be able to value healthcare arrangements on the basis of equal rights of EU citizens is another question. Regarding Malta it might stay due to reciprocal agreements but that does not count for all the other EU countries.

Catalonia just voted against leaving the EU. It is to be seen what happens in the UK .

Cheers
Ricky
tearnet
#10
I was just pondering on the situation for expat retiries, for those wishing to move for work and lifestyle I guess it will be harder to move without finance in place. As for EU free trade in my opinion it's a myth. The UK would be far better of if it had continued its trade links and agreements with the commonwealth countries instead of paying massive subsidies to bolster countries like France, Greece, Spain etc who love the EU for its support of industries that on there聽 own would not survive ie farming (france), fishing (spain) tax avoidance (Greece :/).
The only people who benifit long term in the EU are the bureaucrats. I think the initial idea for聽 a common market was perfect but a large european bureucratic state is not.
Rant over :D
GuestPoster566
#11
I agree with tearnet in that we were members of EFTA and should have remained so and not joined the EU.
However, situations (and opinions) change and now we are in the EU and have been for many years, we should remain so but not join any central banking scheme.
I don't think that free trade at the moment is a 'myth' and many ex pats benefit from this.
G
#12
If the UK were to leave the EU, than in the worst case scenario UK citizens would become 3rd country nationals, with no rights to live in Malta (although those who have lived here for 5 years could apply for permanent residency).
1 member reacted to this post
G
#13

tearnet wrote:

Most of the reciprocal agreements ie healthcare, tax etc were in place before the current EU structure and would I am sure remain.


The risk is that the EU sticks 2 fingers up across the channel, and UK is told if you are out, you are out of everything. If the French had their way, it could happen.

G
#14

redmik wrote:

So, once residency is secured in Malta there should be no threat to living there?


your residency status is dependent on you being an EU/EEA/Swiss citizen, so it depends if the UK joined the EEA. If it did, it would still have to abide by EU rules, but have no say in what they were.

tearnet
#15
Free trade that is supported by massive EU subsidies and stockpiling of goods is not free trade at all. Just an artificial market with no incentive for the inefficient to improve. Free trade across EU borders, Try bringing in your own vehicle to Malta from UK, FREE its not!
You are right situations do change but in the EU is not better than EFTA, just look at how the justice system in the UK is being undermind by EU directives and laws that go against any democratic process that the UK introduces.
Note that the only countries fighting to enlarge the EU are countries that firstly lied about their financial state when joining and now require massive聽 injections of cash to keep going ( Germany excepted).

Terry
tearnet
#16

georgeingozo wrote:
tearnet wrote:

Most of the reciprocal agreements ie healthcare, tax etc were in place before the current EU structure and would I am sure remain.


The risk is that the EU sticks 2 fingers up across the channel, and UK is told if you are out, you are out of everything. If the French had their way, it could happen.


Not for agreements that were in place before we joined the EU. If it did happen the UK would a least be able to send back to France all the illegal immigrants that use France as the stepping stone to the UK. Plus any EU expats in the UK would be in the same position as UK expats in the EU, something the EU would think very hard about I think.

Terry

G
#17

tearnet wrote:

Plus any EU expats in the UK would be in the same position as UK expats in the EU, something the EU would think very hard about I think.

Terry


Absolutely, but logic might not win the argument. I think it would, but just stating the worst case scenario.

tearnet wrote:

If it did happen the UK would a least be able to send back to France all the illegal immigrants that use France as the stepping stone to the UK


not necessarily - it depends whether thats an EU issue, or one for a different treaty.

G
#18
Deciding to leave the EU in a vote is easy to do, but the unravelling of all the agreements would be a nightmare, and there would be all sorts of unforeseen consequences.
G
#19

tearnet wrote:
georgeingozo wrote:
tearnet wrote:

Most of the reciprocal agreements ie healthcare, tax etc were in place before the current EU structure and would I am sure remain.


The risk is that the EU sticks 2 fingers up across the channel, and UK is told if you are out, you are out of everything. If the French had their way, it could happen.


Not for agreements that were in place before we joined the EU. If it did happen the UK would a least be able to send back to France all the illegal immigrants that use France as the stepping stone to the UK. Plus any EU expats in the UK would be in the same position as UK expats in the EU, something the EU would think very hard about I think.

Terry


not necessarily - some of those agreements would have been superceded by EU agreements, and others might be incompatible with EU ones. Malta may wish to allow free access to reside in Malta for UK citizens, but it maybe prohibited as its part of the Shengen Zone.

tearnet
#20
There are already non EU countries that are part of the shengen zone so the UK(along with Ireland) who currently have an opt out of the shengen accord would not be affected.

Terry
ricky
#21
Hi Terry,

since when has the UK become part of the Schengen area ?

Cheers
Ricky
G
#22

tearnet wrote:

There are already non EU countries that are part of the shengen zone so the UK(along with Ireland) who currently have an opt out of the shengen accord would not be affected.

Terry


it could be - the non-EU countries in the Shengen Zone are in EEA - UK might not - you are probably right, just again pointing out the worst case. If the EU play hardball with the UK if it left then who knows what will happen.

Chances are, it would all be fine, but not guaranteed. No country has left the EU, and its not even envisaged in the EU treaties that a country would. The UK leaving could precipitate other countries leaving, and if those included Italy, then who knows, even Malta might leave.

GuestPoster566
#23
The Schengen Area comprises the territories of twenty-six European countries that have implemented the Schengen Agreement signed in the town of Schengen, Luxembourg, in 1985. The Schengen Area operates very much like a single state for international travel with external border controls for those travelling in and out of the area, but with no internal border controls when travelling between Schengen countries.
The Schengen rules were absorbed into European Union law by the Amsterdam Treaty in 1997, and entered into force in 1999; although the area officially includes four non-EU member states聴Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland聴and de facto includes three European micro-states聴Monaco, San Marino, and the Vatican City. All but two EU member states聴Ireland and the United Kingdom聴are required to implement Schengen rules.

tearnet
#24

tearnet wrote:

There are already non EU countries that are part of the shengen zone so the UK(along with Ireland) who currently have an opt out of the shengen accord would not be affected.

Terry


Hi Ricky
聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽As I said UK and Ireland have an agreed optout of the Shengan accord.

Terry

G
#25
check out the lead story in The Economist this week - it suggests the UK wouldn't be permitted to leave the EU and join EFTA/EEA instead (or indeed want to). As for UK expats living in the EU, it writes...

"Britain and its erstwhile EU partners would have to decide quickly how people on the wrong side of newly erected barriers to the free movement of labour should be treated. Around 2.3m people from EU countries were living in Britain in 2011, up from 1.1m in 2004; around 1.7m Britons have gone the other way. The rights of residency for such migrants would no longer be automatic. Forced repatriation would be damaging to all countries.

The simplest solution would be to offer citizenship to all those resident in Britain at a particular date, in return for a similar offer to Britons living in other parts of Europe. Anticipation of such an amnesty would spur a rush to and from Britain in the run-up to its exit. As the drawbridge eventually rose, businesses would suffer. London聮s growing tech cluster, as well as the City, relies heavily on the free flow of young workers from other parts of Europe."
G
#26
I can't see Malta offering citizenship to UK citizens living in Malta
G
#27
Toon
#28
I dont think id want citizenship to be honest!!!!
G
#29
Well it might be a choice of take citizenship or leave. Given the tax implications, I'd probably leave.
G
#30
Bear in mind, both UK and Malta allow dual citizenship
Toon
#31
yep me too
tearnet
#32
It will be interesting to see what happens after the Scottish referendum. If they split from the UK and then have to apply to join the EU, what sort of agreement they get and if they have to adopt the euro as a precondition.

If then the UK leaves the EU聽 can we send all the scots back? :D
G
#33
Nobody knows. It depends who is in power in the UK at the time.
rainbow3
#34
Yep, thats true, we will just have to wait and see and deal with it when and if it happens!
ricky
#35
I would expect the worse as there is no 'cherry picking' in the EU business.

It is either in or out !

Being in is already costing a lot of money to keep certain countries in ....don't expect any sympathy for countries opting out .

Cheers
Ricky
G
#36
As The Economist concludes

"The most likely outcome would be that Britain would find itself as a scratchy outsider with somewhat limited access to the single market, almost no influence and few friends. And one certainty: that having once departed, it would be all but impossible to get back in again."
GuestPoster566
#37

georgeingozo wrote:

As The Economist concludes

"The most likely outcome would be that Britain would find itself as a scratchy outsider with somewhat limited access to the single market, almost no influence and few friends. And one certainty: that having once departed, it would be all but impossible to get back in again."


Those are my thoughts too.
That makes the price too high a price for the UK to pay, unless they strike more trade deals with China.

G
#38

redmik wrote:
georgeingozo wrote:

As The Economist concludes

"The most likely outcome would be that Britain would find itself as a scratchy outsider with somewhat limited access to the single market, almost no influence and few friends. And one certainty: that having once departed, it would be all but impossible to get back in again."


Those are my thoughts too.
That makes the price too high a price for the UK to pay, unless they strike more trade deals with China.


Which would be dangerous, as although a big country, is only one country, and communist at that. It's also likely that the UK would have to become even more dependent on the financial sector

F
#39
I think you got that one wrong gng. Australias economy relies heavily with china, and we have the best economy in the world at the moment.
G
#40
Australia sells raw materials to China - the UK doesn't have any

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