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ARMS - Utility prices - again

Entity
#1
Sorry for the same topic again, but I have questions.

As I'm leaving the island, I'm trying to close everything.

For arms, my landlord told me that I have to pay 440 EUR for the last two months as this is the amount what the arms finally invoiced.
This amount is like 4 times as our usual bill.

I checked the invoices and we got billed at 2.10 which is the Non Residential rate for the water.
And now our last 38m3 is cost 252.50.

As I haven't seen the invoice (because they will send it to my landlord). What I suppose that they put us to the domestic rate, who-know-how-many comsumers registered and they rebilled our whole consumption at聽 5.41 ( domestic rate ).

Is it usual procedure (I mean invoice monthly in non-residental, then issue a final invoice in domestic, switching between rates)

As I have the ID now (and all of my family) can I go and register ourself, and modify the invoices (showing them the rental contract as well) or I have no chances to get money back?
See also
Toon
#2
one thing is for sure they wont back date your bills....
Toon
#3
are you sure ARMs are billing monthly as I dont think they are - i think the landlord is billing you himself monthly and incorrectly is more likely - and by that i mean hes using the lower rate until he gets the bill....then he hits you with it. you really need to see a proper 2 pages bill from arms - i suggest you go with the landlord to arms and get a final bill take your readings.
Toon
#4
on second thoughts it may be worth it as the next bill has to be issued with the applicable rates and that would be residential - the change of consumer numbers is effective on the very next bill issued for sure...but that will only apply if your landlord agrees to you being in his account as a registered set of consumers
Toon
#5
if your landlord cant produce an invoice from arms (it is highly likely one hasnt even been issued yet) so best be quick damned quick
Entity
#6
Yes, I have bills from arms, that's why I know that arms billed me at 2.10EUR / m3 for water.

Actually I had 3 invoices each covers aprox 2 months, and the last one, which I haven't seen yet.

I paid 100EUR per month in advance and he showed me the invoices.
Entity
#7

toonarmy9752 wrote:

one thing is for sure they wont back date your bills....


Ok, so the only question is, why they billed me on non-residental rate聽 and why they changed it to the domestic rate, and is there anything what I can do.

Or it is the usual way of billing, then I cannot do anything with this (just pay).

Toon
#8
not sure about this maybe GnG can clarify but does it matter about how many people are consumers (even though not registered) in the house for water isnt there a threshold of 33cu m of water per person per yr - do they apply that even without the registration? so maybe it could be 33cu m at 21.0 or whatever then 5.41 after that - but then if you can prove having continually paid 2.10 all of the time why is the landlord now asking for 5.41 - id still go to arms and get clarification.
Toon
#9
is it just the water thats the problem? its usually both
Toon
#10
i have to go out now but if i were you see your landlord and ask if he can allow you on the account for the final bill - if so then go straight to arms with your application forms and paperwork residency and the change of consumer numbers forms signed by landlord including his id card front and back.... at least your final bill will be lower... assuming he will allow it
Toon
#11

Entity wrote:
toonarmy9752 wrote:

one thing is for sure they wont back date your bills....


Ok, so the only question is, why they billed me on non-residental rate聽 and why they changed it to the domestic rate, and is there anything what I can do.

Or it is the usual way of billing, then I cannot do anything with this (just pay).


it may be because you may have exceeded a threshold.

Entity
#12
I'm sure, that is the case, but in that case for me it would be logical to invoice in the lover domestic rate and then when we pass the treshold, the higher one, but not on the non-residential one.

What - maybe that is what happened - the previous tenants, who was registered on this address, registered themself on another address ( as I red in the faq in this case the arms will automatically remove them from the previous address), so suddenly there is noone registered here anymore...

I like the maltese way :)

Maybe I can do a small favor for the next tenant to sending our IDs to arms, and keep us registered.. 7-10 months to get an ID is not a funny thing..
Entity
#13
Hm, I just noticed the small note on the old invoices ( I was to upset yesterday)
Customer scheme: Non-residential

Anyway, I'm trying to call customer care on 8007 2222, but it is not working, (tried from landline + mobile as well) can anyone confirm this?
tearnet
#14
This from the website, try an email.........

Between 8am and 4pm on our free phone 8007 2222 for assistance regarding queries related to your service or bill.

24/7 on our free phone 8007 2222 for assistance regarding any technical problems related to water supply, leakages and wastewater.

E-mail at customercare@arms.com.mt


Terry
Entity
#15
So, after 2 hours of trying, i managed to talk with arms. They told me, that they haven't issued any invoices yet, and the property is in the non-residental scheme.

So i had to call the landlord again and argue. He called me a thief and other 'nice' things.

After we left the property, he called me, told me that i had right and hung up the phone.
Toon
#16
hmm nice word thief - he had the balls to call you a thief isnt that what he was doing to you in asking for the higher rate to be paid..without question... ah well... very honest these landlords - here endeth lesson one.
Entity
#17
I tried to convience him 3 times to come to my place, call ARMs together and clarify the situation. The only thing what he did that shouting with me over the phone ( and he asked his wife, is there anything in the property that I can steal).聽

Anyway, it's over..
Entity
#18
I can imagine myself checking in at the airport with 3 beds and with the fridge :) Souvenirs from Malta :)
Toon
#19
so everyones a thief barr him eh - oh what lovely host. something you can tell people about your experience in Malta... not quite in the brochures is it.
Spiridonov
#20
If you have the previous bill - there is only one correct way to calculate the final bill:
1. Take the final reading
2. Go to 'calculate my bill' page on ARMS web-site
3. Calculate the bill between the latest ACTUAL bill and final reading
4. Deduct all estimated bills paid between latest actual bill and final reading.
1 member reacted to this post
Duxx
#21
is there a period in day when elec. is cheaper? like form 00:00 till 06:00 or the price is always the same?
G
#22

Duxx wrote:

is there a period in day when elec. is cheaper?


no

Toon
#23
price is the same no matter when you use it
rooikat
#24
The discussion thread contains the term 'non-residential' - this could be confusing to some newbies on the blog, is my explanation below correct?

Non-residential rate is for a commercial property.

Domestic rate is for a residential property where the occupiers have not registered themselves as ID card holders on the owner's
bill (and also for owners if it is their second property)


Residential rate is for occupiers that have been included on the owner's bill by means of an ID card (and also for owners of their first property that have an ID card.)
G
#25
non-residential isn't an official ARMS term, so covers both domestic and commercial. Domestic also covers things like garages and common areas (ie places where nobody is registered as living in)
rooikat
#26

georgeingozo wrote:

non-residential isn't an official ARMS term, so covers both domestic and commercial. Domestic also covers things like garages and common areas (ie places where nobody is registered as living in)


The reason I queried the term non-residential is because the bill calculator on the ARMS page actually has a non-residential category in its little drop down box. We use this bill calculator each month after we have taken our readings and then pay our landlord based on the calculation along with the rental. We realise there could be a slight variance when the bills are issued, but so far, so good. Re domestic, yes, that is the rate we have to pay for the communal areas of our block of flats because 'no one is living there' :) according to the ARMS spokesperson.

B
#27
To compare and contrast the differing water and electricity tariff schemes:

Toon
#28
Be careful rooikat - there is only one way to calculate the bill even using the calculator - and that is to have the BASE LINE SET AT THE START OF YOUR RENTAL with your reading date and reading... this should be used EVERY TIME FOR THE YEAR.. with the only moving date and reading being the end of the current month.... do the calculation then deduct what has been paid TO DATE. This is the only way you will get the full benefit for those unused units of previous months - especially in the months of much heavier usage.

Remember the thresholds and discounts are based on annual consumptions and months can have seasonal usage variations some months more some months less.聽 If not careful you could use MORE and would lose the discounts as each month is based on an average per month in the calculator.
rooikat
#29
Thank you Toonarmy - I hadn't seen it that way, makes sense. Any advice on how I would calculate it in that way bearing in mind we had a switch over from domestic to residential rate in the middle of August?聽 If I use the base line as suggested from 13 April when we arrived, it is going to cover two rate structures, which could be tricky. if I use the base line from the middle of August I will have one rate but will have lost 4 months of the year. By the way, I notice in some of my monthly calculations an eco saving has been granted, is this the discount you are talking about?
rooikat
#30
PS Do the discounts apply to domestic tariffs as well, or only residential?
Toon
#31

rooikat wrote:

Thank you Toonarmy - I hadn't seen it that way, makes sense. Any advice on how I would calculate it in that way bearing in mind we had a switch over from domestic to residential rate in the middle of August?聽 If I use the base line as suggested from 13 April when we arrived, it is going to cover two rate structures, which could be tricky. if I use the base line from the middle of August I will have one rate but will have lost 4 months of the year. By the way, I notice in some of my monthly calculations an eco saving has been granted, is this the discount you are talking about?


yes it is聽 - the calcs should be calculated from the first issued bill at discounted rates (residential only)

as the first four months you wouldnt necessarily have the right to the discounts so not sure if you should take it from the middle of august onwards... if you can establish when the first bill was issued at discounted rates thats effectively when you rights to eco discounts would be applied - the change to residential numbers is effective in the next issued bill

G
#32

rooikat wrote:

PS Do the discounts apply to domestic tariffs as well, or only residential?


only residential

Toon
#33
if your subjected to a bill combining the two tariffs maybe you can work it backwards to establish the readings and dates.
Toon
#34

georgeingozo wrote:
rooikat wrote:

PS Do the discounts apply to domestic tariffs as well, or only residential?


only residential


correct

rooikat
#35
Right - all makes sense, thank you.聽 We haven't seen a statement yet that incorporates the change over, but will start using the base line from mid August and see what happens.
Toon
#36
the new rates should be effective from the issue of the next bill after the changes to consumer numbers was applied for and accepted..
Toon
#37
good luck...
rooikat
#38
I've just re-calculated our September utility payment made to the landlord and it's only out by a few cents, phew! I did say I had seen an eco reduction figure on the original calculation. But, from next month will use the proper base line each time - thanks again for the heads up Toonarmy ;)
Toon
#39
your welcome - gotta make use of everyone of those units in your allowances...
rooikat
#40
'Remember the thresholds and discounts are based on annual consumptions'

Do you know if this is a based an ARMS Jan - Dec basis or is it based on a year from when our residential rate kicked in?

Thanks

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