´ó¿§¸£ÀûÓ°Ôº

@Renoit

Strictly speaking, the NLV does not need a proof of address, although it is needed for the TIE that you must get soon after. However, USA applications seem to ask for it at the visa stage too. The BLS requirements are found below and it says that a proof of address is "advisable" rather than "required".

You could therefore give some address (without a proof) and give a supporting letter explaining what the address is, and why you don't yet have a proof of address. This seems a bit weak to me. You should also note that their requirement is for "at least 3 months". My guess is that you could do a booking via Airbnb or Booking.com for 3 months, and you can provide your booking receipt and a perhaps a supporting note from your landlord that you've got a non-refundable booking for those months.

You should note that a 3 months lease would not be enough to get your padron certificate and your TIE. Usually, this would be a year contract, or your property deed. This means you can either get two separate proofs (one for your NLV, then a second one for your padron/TIE). Or you can get one proof that will serve for both.

To get an address (and lease) remotely is not so easy (but possible). So one option is to make a visit to Spain to find a place for a long term rental or to buy (and while there, get your health insurance policy). Or you make some rental compromise by renting now (early) as flats are available, even though you can't use it yet. Or finding a very cheap studio (that you have no intention of actually living in) just to get a nice long rental contract in place. Or finding a friend in Spain who will let you stay in their spare room, and give you a notarized letter to this effect.

If I were in your situation, I think I would prefer to avoid to avoid the cost and aggravation of a separate trip to Spain just to get a proof of address. I reckon I would look at Idealista (big property website) and find a few of the very cheapest studios (300-400 euros per month, maybe even as low as 250 in a few provinces) and just get myself a contract for 12-18 months (plenty of time to apply for the NLV, get to Spain, get my padron, then get my TIE). I can make sure the landlord is cool with giving me a proper notarized rental contract. I would try for one that isn't completely horrible, so I could actually stay there for a few weeks (it might take a week or two to get my padron, then a few weeks to apply for my TIE). Once I've applied for my TIE, and my application has been accepted, there's no more need for the rental contract. And I can give notice on the studio (as I'm not on the hook for the whole lease as might be the case in USA, although I might lose my deposit). Overall, this is probably easier than the short-term booking and friend options, and pretty inexpensive if I get out of the lease within 3 months or so.

it’s like putting the cart before the horse.  What happens If you sign a lease and then the NLV is denied? Plus it is very costly to have to fly back and forth to Spain especially from the US.  This was one deterrent for us.

@gwynj

Thanks for the ideas.  One issue is I would hate to have to move twice with all our stuff. The other issue is I'd hate to lose deposit or  not be able to get out of long term lease. I know others had to figure this out also. We definitely can’t make multiple trips to find something and then move.

@Mbershod

Lol. Or the chicken or  the egg. Yes multiple trips won't work and really don't want to lose deposit. Unfortunately no friends or family there. What did you do?

@Mbershod

The requirements for the NLV are posted online as a checklist. You can see exactly what is required, and you can figure out (in advance) whether you have/meet the requirements. If you do, it's most unlikely that you would be refused your NLV.

If you sign a lease, but then don't get an NLV, or decide that Spain sucks, or the apartment sucks, then you simply give you landlord notice and quit the apartment/lease. And stop paying the rent. You might lose your deposit, but you're not going to be chased for the balance of the lease in the way that you might be in certain other countries.

Residence permits/visa have similar requirements in most countries. Typically, you have to show your finances, health insurance, and a place to live in your desired new country.

@Renoit

@Mbershod

The logistics of moving are time-consuming and expensive. I get that. And I get that you guys don't like the options... but you kinda have to pick the least bad option for you. And, indeed, you can now see why so many North Americans prefer the geographic convenience of Mexico, Panama, Costa Rica. :-)

Long leases are typically not an issue in Europe. In the USA, as I understand, it's typical to be on the hook for the entire lease. In Europe (or most places that I've been), you simply give your landlord notice, give the keys back, and stop paying rent. You're breaking the lease, so you gotta expect the landlord to keep your deposit. So you try very hard to only give one month rent as deposit, rather than 6 or 12. In my experience, I've paid one month as deposit, one month rent in advance, and one month as commission to the agent. But I've NEVER been chased (or even asked) for the balance for the the lease. And I doubt this will be an issue for you either, when that time comes. In my view, you're adding one more thing to worry about, that you simply don't need to.

I've done this process a ton of times to lots of different countries, and it's definitely a pain in the proverbial. But I've never managed to do it ALL in one go, without some significant compromise. Typically, I'd have to rent/buy a place sight unseen (not ideal), and/or leave all/most my stuff behind and replace it in the new country. Also not ideal, especially for your loving pets. :-)

In some locations, a lawyer will figure out a rental contract for you, just to keep immigration happy. But only if you're paying them to handle your residence applications.

At some point, you will need to move you, your belongings, and maybe your pets. At this point, you need to know you have a suitable place to move into, that (ideally) you won't be desperate to move out of a few weeks later. And you need to know you've completed all/most of the immigration formalities, and that you're cleared to live in your new country (i.e. you won't be asked to leave Spain a month after you moved).

You can go on Idealista today and rent a fancy house/apartment in downtown Madrid, Barcelona, or Valencia. These are great cities, and if the listing looks good, it's probably a very nice property. You will be very happy here, but it will be very expensive in terms of rent/deposit/commission. I would personally be very uncomfortable doing this, and it would be one of the most expensive options. (And, even though Idealista is a very good legit site, you still have to be careful not to get scammed and send $5,000 to a mystery landlord with an imaginary apartment.) But this gives you a place to call home immediately, which is good enough for immigration, and you can move all your stuff here in 5 months, say. This is one trip.

However, most folks do make (at least) 2 trips, it's very hard to avoid. You can go BEFORE you start the visa process. Lots of folks want to check out Spain, and choose a nice city/town/location to live in. And then they want to pick a realtor and go see 5-10 properties before signing a nice long lease (or buying it). This kind of visit is a few weeks, with a small suitcase, and no great logistical aggravation. At the end, you have your long term rental contract for a place you love (and your Spanish health insurance policy) and you're ready to apply for your NLV (and subsequently your padron/TIE).

Or, you can go AFTER you start the visa process. Specifically, after you've got your NLV (i.e. you know you can move to Spain), and you only need your padron and TIE. You can get these (padron/TIE) in a few weeks too, again with no great logistical aggravation. And while doing this, you can also do the property search mentioned above (i.e. the place you will really live, and the place you will move all your stuff to). At this point, you have your TIE (all immigration processes completed) and you have a rental contract (and keys) for a place you're excited to move into. And you stay for a couple of nights, and make sure it's OK. Now, you can go back to USA and prepare for the big move, secure that there are no nasty surprises (an apartment you hate/doesn't exist, consular officer who decides Spain doesn't want you).

BUT to get to this point, you already needed the rental contract for the NLV application. My suggestions were a long booking on Airbnb/Booking... or a cheap studio on Idealista for 300 euros-ish... or paying a lawyer/friend/acquaintance to rustle up a rental contract that immigration would accept. This is to get your NLV only. You have no intention of living here (but if the studio's OK, you might stay a few weeks to get your TIE). And you have no intention of moving all your stuff here.

@gwynj

Thanks….It is all so overwhelming.  It is quite expensive to fly back and forth to Europe from the States, and we have a property here that we have to sell so timing for that is crucial to avoid having to pay taxes to Spain on capital gains.  Also we have a cat who is not very social and the thought of taking her in a 9 hr plane ride makes me lose sleep at night. My partner is on the process of getting her Italian citizenship which might make things a bit easier so we have put our plans on hold for about a year. Appreciate your insight

@Mbershod

It is indeed a bit overwhelming. There's a lot to think about and organize. I did this earlier this year to relocate my 96-year old father (who needs round-the-clock care), and this was definitely Mission Almost Impossible. I'm quietly confident that it will be a lot easier for you and your anti-social cat. :-)

The Italy deal is a super development (potentially)! The logistics of moving you and your cat will be pretty much the same. But the immigration process is completely different. If one of you has an EU passport then you can move to any EU country for any reason. She does a thing called EU Citizen Registration, and then, as a second step (as she is would now be a legal Spanish resident), you do Family Reunification for a non-EU family member. These can both be done in Spain without having to visit a Spanish consulate beforehand and getting a visa. As EU citizens are entitled to Freedom of Movement, you can be very confident that you can move to Spain without problem. (There's still a bit of red tape, but that's to be expected.)

The bad news is that citizenship applications can take a long time. I don't know how far along in the process you are, but my partner got her Spanish citizenship/passport last year... after waiting a couple of years for her application to be approved/processed.

Good luck!

@gwynj

Did you say the renter has to also pay a commission to the realtor to rent an apartment? That's definitely different than US. 😵

@Renoit

It has been my experience that agents charge tenants commission in many countries in Europe (and often double-dip, charging both landlord and tenant). But, on Spain, I stand corrected. A recent law change makes the agent commission the responsibility of the landlord. So that's one less thing for you to worry about. Yay!

@gwynj

😀 Yay. That's great news!!

@Renoit We applied for our NLV in July 2024 in San Francisco and used a friend's address, with no lease. At the time they weren't using BLS and our immigration attorney told us we didn't need an "official" address or lease. But every consulate is different and maybe BLS is more strict about this. It seems very onerous to require a lease when you don't know if you are going to be approved or even live in the space.

We took a trip to make sure we wanted to live where we had picked (we did) and rented a furnished apartment.  It was 5 months from lease sign to arrival.  In retrospect, knowing what I know now, I would have

      rented a bare bones cheap but furnished place.  Maybe not in the area I want to live in, but close

       delay delivery of our stuff, until we found a replacement apartment

       stayed in apt 1 until visa processs, empadronamiento, etc were finalized.

We did find it very nice to go directly from the airport to our rented apartment, which was furnished.  We did not have to stay in a hotel, while looking for an apartment.  That can take some time, and if you are in a rush you might rent a place you end up not liking