Hey all, newbie here...just a bit of info.
Hey all!聽 Just found this site and think it's a fantastic idea!聽
My husband and I are planning early retirement and have been considering Ecuador.聽 You know that when you first begin searching for relocation info, you will find tons of "touristy" material, which make it sound like the best place on earth, with no problems. We realize, however, that simply isn't true.聽 Every place on the globe has "good" and "bad" and we don't want to base our decision based on what some realtor or travel site tells us, we want the REAL scoop. I'm hoping this is the best place for that.
We are planning on taking a trip down by the end of this year to take a look around.聽 We're especially interested in areas that are safe, with some other ex-pats we can learn from.聽 We're looking for a life that's simple, peaceful and pure.聽 We are excited about immersing ourselves in a new culture, learning Spanish and soaking up all we can to fit into a new country.
I hope to meet a lot of you here online and perhaps again someday in person in beautiful Ecuador.
My husband and I are planning early retirement and have been considering Ecuador.聽 You know that when you first begin searching for relocation info, you will find tons of "touristy" material, which make it sound like the best place on earth, with no problems. We realize, however, that simply isn't true.聽 Every place on the globe has "good" and "bad" and we don't want to base our decision based on what some realtor or travel site tells us, we want the REAL scoop. I'm hoping this is the best place for that.
We are planning on taking a trip down by the end of this year to take a look around.聽 We're especially interested in areas that are safe, with some other ex-pats we can learn from.聽 We're looking for a life that's simple, peaceful and pure.聽 We are excited about immersing ourselves in a new culture, learning Spanish and soaking up all we can to fit into a new country.
I hope to meet a lot of you here online and perhaps again someday in person in beautiful Ecuador.
See also
- Transports in Ecuador - Guide
- Newbie Here - 10 Replies
- Another Newbie Here! - 10 Replies
- newbie to expat forum - 3 Replies
- Newbie landing in Quito on Mon. 9/30 - 7 Replies
- Newbie looking for advice & recommendations - 14 Replies
- Newbie here, moving to Cuenca in January - 10 Replies
Hi, Laura. Best of luck with your plans. You're wise not to believe everything you read. People obviously have varying viewpoints and online businesses are interested in selling their wares. Take everything with a grain of salt (including this -- LOL).
I've been overseas for a year now, in the Philippines and I plan to move to Ecuador soon. I'd say that the biggest lesson I've learned is to not make commitments that can't be reversed -- e.g., buying a house. I've seen/heard of several expats fall in love with a place and buy property. Then, when the honeymoon is over, they can't leave because the property is hard/impossible to sell.
I don't know what your real estate plans are, but I'd strongly recommend not buying until you've been in a place long enough to know it's where you want to stay.
Bob
I've been overseas for a year now, in the Philippines and I plan to move to Ecuador soon. I'd say that the biggest lesson I've learned is to not make commitments that can't be reversed -- e.g., buying a house. I've seen/heard of several expats fall in love with a place and buy property. Then, when the honeymoon is over, they can't leave because the property is hard/impossible to sell.
I don't know what your real estate plans are, but I'd strongly recommend not buying until you've been in a place long enough to know it's where you want to stay.
Bob
Thanks for the warm welcome!聽 I've actually already read some of Nards Barley's Blogs and find them very entertaining, as well as informative.聽 Cuenca looks like a beautiful place to start.聽 My husband and I have already decided to rent at first so we will be able to explore as much as we can to find the right place for us.聽 This way we leave the door open in case we discover we need to come back to the US, but I'm hoping that's not going to be the case.
I'll try to find as many answers to the tons of questions by searching the forum and the blogs.聽 I'm hoping to make some contacts with expats already in Ecuador so I will feel some sort of connection to make the transition easier.
I'll try to find as many answers to the tons of questions by searching the forum and the blogs.聽 I'm hoping to make some contacts with expats already in Ecuador so I will feel some sort of connection to make the transition easier.
Hi Lauratort! I am sure you will find Ecuador interesting. I have been here for nearly 8 years now (see my post "Accidentally Moving to Ecuador" and have seen the country develop hugely in that time. It still has a long way to go though as some of the problems are deep-rooted in social and cultural habits that take a long time to change. Stuff like the bureaucracy and inefficiency and lack of iniciative in offices will be frustrating, but there is plenty to make up for that in terms of the climate, environment, cultures, reasonable health care, super-abundance of cheap fruit and vegetables, etc, etc. . .
I ended up starting a foundation and a Spanish school (Yanapuma - Quito, Cuenca, and online) and running a business here is quite complicated, but there are some good opportunities with the current growth of the economy.
Hope this helps!
I ended up starting a foundation and a Spanish school (Yanapuma - Quito, Cuenca, and online) and running a business here is quite complicated, but there are some good opportunities with the current growth of the economy.
Hope this helps!
Hi. We own a house in Cuenca.聽 We love Ecuador.聽 Hope to see you sometime later this year
Tom and Jaudon
Tom and Jaudon
The funny this is....Ecuador wasn't our first choice, probably because we hadn't heard much about it.聽 The more we find out, the closer we are to making it our goal, simply because I TRIED to find out some negative things about the country, with little success!聽 Of course I understand that everyone that thinks they want to live there have different expectations, and some people will complain about anything and everything, but there are aspects of the Ecuadorian culture that are long gone from the US, and it's a terrible shame. (that last sentence makes me feel old!)
Thankfully, ekokirby, it will be early retirement, so we won't have the difficulties of running a business so we will get to enjoy all the good things!
Tom119, I'm happy that you are enjoying your life.聽 My husband and I would love to be able to meet up with some of you when we're able to make our trip down.聽 It would certainly make things much more comfortable knowing we already have contacts and friends there!聽
By the way, can anyone tell me what is the nearest airport to Cuenca?聽 About how long would a car ride take from the airport to town?
Thankfully, ekokirby, it will be early retirement, so we won't have the difficulties of running a business so we will get to enjoy all the good things!
Tom119, I'm happy that you are enjoying your life.聽 My husband and I would love to be able to meet up with some of you when we're able to make our trip down.聽 It would certainly make things much more comfortable knowing we already have contacts and friends there!聽
By the way, can anyone tell me what is the nearest airport to Cuenca?聽 About how long would a car ride take from the airport to town?
Laura,
There is an airport in Cuenca. You can fly directly to Cuenca from Quito, cheap flight, under $ 80.00. If you are going to Cuenca out of Guayaquil, you will have to take a bus, or a van. A regular van costs about $ 12.00. If you want a private van, that will run about $ 80.00, but the upside is, you can have a lot of luggage. The drive time by van is about 3 hours, by bus, much longer as they make numerous stops.
Stay Well,
Neil
There is an airport in Cuenca. You can fly directly to Cuenca from Quito, cheap flight, under $ 80.00. If you are going to Cuenca out of Guayaquil, you will have to take a bus, or a van. A regular van costs about $ 12.00. If you want a private van, that will run about $ 80.00, but the upside is, you can have a lot of luggage. The drive time by van is about 3 hours, by bus, much longer as they make numerous stops.
Stay Well,
Neil
A great way to get information of life on the ground is read peoples blogs. This is a great way to get the true on the good and the bads. Here is mine that is full of information and is hilarious.聽 Enjoy and good luck, your going to love it.
Luna2 wrote:A great way to get information of life on the ground is read peoples blogs. This is a great way to get the true on the good and the bads. Here is mine that is full of information and is hilarious.聽 Enjoy and good luck, your going to love it.
Thank you!聽 I've had the pleasure of reading some of your blog entries and I feel a kinship with you already!聽 I'm looking forward to the rest of them later this afternoon.聽 Thanks for sharing your experiences.聽 They really do mean a lot to someone like me, who needs to have some sort of connection so I don't feel quite so lost!聽 xoxo
I was a pensionado in Costa Rica and lived there from 1972 to
19i75. had a great time. very cheap at the time and a memorable
experience for me and my two kids who became Spanish Fluent.
Cuenca I"m guessing has over 20,000 American ex-pats living there
If you watched Diane Sawyer tonight. you saw her report that 347,000 Americans have their SS$$ Benefits
聽 transferred abroad,..... to foreign countries !!!聽聽 聽 聽 聽The spotlight was on a place I recognized instantly..
and on which I have sent you several Videos.. Cuenca, Ecuador... and on a couple who was living in聽 Las Vegas on $8000 a month.. &聽 who now have聽 a comparable lifestyle on $1800 per month.聽 The wife's Healthcare expenses went from $640 per month to $100 per month,聽 an experience and benefit
she shares with an estimated 22,000 other Americans living聽 in Cuenca聽 on the west Coast of Ecuador..聽 聽 Other countries which are very similar are Costa Rica of course, but also Panama, and within the聽 decade IMO,聽 are聽 Belize,聽 Columbia,聽 Peru, Nicaragua, maybe even Guatemala in central America.聽 聽Other nice spots include Cozumel .. an island off the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula.. and which is a world class聽 scuba diving site.聽 聽 I have half a dozen dives off the East cost of Cozumel .. about 20 years ago聽 聽 Also worthy of mention are Bahamas, ( Abaco ), Harbor Island, Barbados ( where Rihanna was born ),聽
聽 Antigua.. incredible beaches聽 & scuba diving, and Martinique..聽 Saint Lucia and Sint Martin. in the Caribbean... enjoy !聽 聽as I have mentioned ... the competition for mature retired Americans will reach fever pitch globally before 2016 trust me... and dont mention it to anyone but VERY close friends..
19i75. had a great time. very cheap at the time and a memorable
experience for me and my two kids who became Spanish Fluent.
Cuenca I"m guessing has over 20,000 American ex-pats living there
If you watched Diane Sawyer tonight. you saw her report that 347,000 Americans have their SS$$ Benefits
聽 transferred abroad,..... to foreign countries !!!聽
and on which I have sent you several Videos.. Cuenca, Ecuador... and on a couple who was living in聽 Las Vegas on $8000 a month.. &聽 who now have聽 a comparable lifestyle on $1800 per month.聽 The wife's Healthcare expenses went from $640 per month to $100 per month,聽 an experience and benefit
she shares with an estimated 22,000 other Americans living聽 in Cuenca聽 on the west Coast of Ecuador..聽 聽 Other countries which are very similar are Costa Rica of course, but also Panama, and within the聽 decade IMO,聽 are聽 Belize,聽 Columbia,聽 Peru, Nicaragua, maybe even Guatemala in central America.聽 聽Other nice spots include Cozumel .. an island off the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula.. and which is a world class聽 scuba diving site.聽 聽 I have half a dozen dives off the East cost of Cozumel .. about 20 years ago聽 聽 Also worthy of mention are Bahamas, ( Abaco ), Harbor Island, Barbados ( where Rihanna was born ),聽
聽 Antigua.. incredible beaches聽 & scuba diving, and Martinique..聽 Saint Lucia and Sint Martin. in the Caribbean... enjoy !聽 聽as I have mentioned ... the competition for mature retired Americans will reach fever pitch globally before 2016 trust me... and dont mention it to anyone but VERY close friends..
Ecuador was listed in a travel book called the worlds cheapest destinations as a place worth visiting. Its well worth a read, its why I'm interested in doing what you are doing too.
Just read your note...and I relate to what your questions and what you expressed! We felt the same way! Dave and I have been living innEcuador for 2 1/2 years now. I invite you to check out our web site for the "good the bad and the ugly"....lol! Ecuador Property Consultants.com. We f=have a face book page to....Ecuador Living. I hope you find us and will enjoy reading some first hand stories from us! email us at info@EcuadorPropertyConsultants.com. Miriam
anyone with experience in Orchids and who can tell me what the
National regulations are re exportation of orchids
聽 聽and fern bark material.. much obliged. looking into a coop
bus importing Orchids into USA and selling them around Atlanta
聽 wiiliam griffin willgriffin1942@att.net聽 聽678 714 2758聽
聽 聽 Saludos !
National regulations are re exportation of orchids
聽 聽and fern bark material.. much obliged. looking into a coop
bus importing Orchids into USA and selling them around Atlanta
聽 wiiliam griffin willgriffin1942@att.net聽 聽678 714 2758聽
聽 聽 Saludos !
willgriffin wrote:I was a pensionado in Costa Rica and lived there from 1972 to
19i75. had a great time. very cheap at the time and a memorable
experience for me and my two kids who became Spanish Fluent.
Cuenca I"m guessing has over 20,000 American ex-pats living there
If you watched Diane Sawyer tonight. you saw her report that 347,000 Americans have their SS$$ Benefits
聽 transferred abroad,..... to foreign countries !!!聽聽 聽 聽 聽The spotlight was on a place I recognized instantly..
and on which I have sent you several Videos.. Cuenca, Ecuador... and on a couple who was living in聽 Las Vegas on $8000 a month.. &聽 who now have聽 a comparable lifestyle on $1800 per month.聽 The wife's Healthcare expenses went from $640 per month to $100 per month,聽 an experience and benefit
she shares with an estimated 22,000 other Americans living聽 in Cuenca聽 on the west Coast of Ecuador..聽 聽 Other countries which are very similar are Costa Rica of course, but also Panama, and within the聽 decade IMO,聽 are聽 Belize,聽 Columbia,聽 Peru, Nicaragua, maybe even Guatemala in central America.聽 聽Other nice spots include Cozumel .. an island off the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula.. and which is a world class聽 scuba diving site.聽 聽 I have half a dozen dives off the East cost of Cozumel .. about 20 years ago聽 聽 Also worthy of mention are Bahamas, ( Abaco ), Harbor Island, Barbados ( where Rihanna was born ),聽
聽 Antigua.. incredible beaches聽 & scuba diving, and Martinique..聽 Saint Lucia and Sint Martin. in the Caribbean... enjoy !聽 聽as I have mentioned ... the competition for mature retired Americans will reach fever pitch globally before 2016 trust me... and dont mention it to anyone but VERY close friends..
22,000 Americans living in Cuenca on the west coast of Ecuador?聽 Good luck in your orchid business.聽 Your secrets are safe with me.
Hi Laura, yes do your due diligence from a far. Then a trip down will yield more due diligence and finally when or if you decide to move down, pick only 2 of your favorite places . Spend 6 months minimum in each of them. Then make a final decision. Then spend another 6 months in an opposite season or time of year in that place that you have already been. Only then if you are still in love with it consider purchasing something, if you really have to.
We ( I am married to a gorgeous ecuadorian lady who is very intelligent and speaks 3 languages, she teaches spanish to gringos)
have lived in Cotacachi (north of Quito in the Mountains) and south in Vilcabamba and now live on the central coast of Ecuador, Puerto Lopez where after a total of 3 years I have purchased land(mostly for investment purposed) . I sublet 2 apt in Cotacachi and rent the house on the coast where we live.聽 If you are a bargain hunter you can have 2 places for less than what you would pay for one in the US or Canada. Then you can have the best of what Ecuador has to offer when you decide where that maybe. Basically I would suggest being patient, learn about the culture and the language before you make decisions. Many gringos depend on others to translate and it gets lost in translation somehow聽 , as well knowing the cultural and being smart will get you into a better position when dealing with locals so that you will be respected by them and therefore get the best that respect can offer.聽 I have learned soooooo much about the culture from my wife and it makes such a difference in daily life.聽 If you wish to communicate farther or later on you can write me at ecuadored(at) yahoo.com聽 聽 聽Steve
We ( I am married to a gorgeous ecuadorian lady who is very intelligent and speaks 3 languages, she teaches spanish to gringos)
have lived in Cotacachi (north of Quito in the Mountains) and south in Vilcabamba and now live on the central coast of Ecuador, Puerto Lopez where after a total of 3 years I have purchased land(mostly for investment purposed) . I sublet 2 apt in Cotacachi and rent the house on the coast where we live.聽 If you are a bargain hunter you can have 2 places for less than what you would pay for one in the US or Canada. Then you can have the best of what Ecuador has to offer when you decide where that maybe. Basically I would suggest being patient, learn about the culture and the language before you make decisions. Many gringos depend on others to translate and it gets lost in translation somehow聽 , as well knowing the cultural and being smart will get you into a better position when dealing with locals so that you will be respected by them and therefore get the best that respect can offer.聽 I have learned soooooo much about the culture from my wife and it makes such a difference in daily life.聽 If you wish to communicate farther or later on you can write me at ecuadored(at) yahoo.com聽 聽 聽Steve
What ever you do do not buy and listen to International Living!
Give me you phone # in the States and I will call you and give you some good advise.
聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 Regards Brian.
Give me you phone # in the States and I will call you and give you some good advise.
聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 Regards Brian.
馃愤1 member reacted to this post
Hey Laura,
It sounds to me like you have a very reasonable approach. Definitely visit Cuenca. There are regular expat meetings in Cuenca where you can meet and learn from the local implants. I don't live in Cuenca, so maybe someone who does can list the place and times of these meetings for you. I can't express strongly enough how wise it is to first visit a place and talk with the locals before you make a commitment. But, I must warn you, most people really love it in Ecuador. Yours truly is one of those. Do make a list of the things most important to you and your family and check out how that fits with what is here. The hardest part is often missing something that just isn't available here. For me, that, oddly enough, is maple syrup and blueberries. Also, supplements and some medicines can be expensive or hard (or even impossible) to get. For example, I take Allegra聽 (which is now available as a generic) and I can only get it here on special order at about eight times the American price.
It sounds to me like you have a very reasonable approach. Definitely visit Cuenca. There are regular expat meetings in Cuenca where you can meet and learn from the local implants. I don't live in Cuenca, so maybe someone who does can list the place and times of these meetings for you. I can't express strongly enough how wise it is to first visit a place and talk with the locals before you make a commitment. But, I must warn you, most people really love it in Ecuador. Yours truly is one of those. Do make a list of the things most important to you and your family and check out how that fits with what is here. The hardest part is often missing something that just isn't available here. For me, that, oddly enough, is maple syrup and blueberries. Also, supplements and some medicines can be expensive or hard (or even impossible) to get. For example, I take Allegra聽 (which is now available as a generic) and I can only get it here on special order at about eight times the American price.
Hello Laura;
If Cuenca is not on your Ecuador radar, it should be unless you are a beach person. If you are interested in learning about Cuenca, I suggest you go to cuencahighlife.com for general news of that wonderful city and subscribe to their daily eletter "Gringo Tree" from the high聽 life web site. They have published several ebooks most notably "Expats in Ecuador: Life in Cuenca". This is a very聽 unsugared picture of Cuenca by people who have a long history of living in Cuenca. My wife and I spent last December and January in Cuenca and bought a condo there just before we left We will be returning next December for three months. If you and your husband are going to be there during that time and would like to get together or have some questions before you come let me know. We found it very easy to make both Gringo and Cuencano friends. By way of disclosure, it is my favorite city in the whole world, in case you couldn't tell.
If Cuenca is not on your Ecuador radar, it should be unless you are a beach person. If you are interested in learning about Cuenca, I suggest you go to cuencahighlife.com for general news of that wonderful city and subscribe to their daily eletter "Gringo Tree" from the high聽 life web site. They have published several ebooks most notably "Expats in Ecuador: Life in Cuenca". This is a very聽 unsugared picture of Cuenca by people who have a long history of living in Cuenca. My wife and I spent last December and January in Cuenca and bought a condo there just before we left We will be returning next December for three months. If you and your husband are going to be there during that time and would like to get together or have some questions before you come let me know. We found it very easy to make both Gringo and Cuencano friends. By way of disclosure, it is my favorite city in the whole world, in case you couldn't tell.
Also some good advise is to be very careful who you buy from.They are just after your money and you are going to make them rich!When I came to Salinas there was only a couple of Ecuadorian Ladies who were very honest and there was never any pressure to buy.I have heard a lot of stories of people who have bought property here and it makes you wonder how they were sucked in and got gouged out of their hard earned money!
Also I have worked and lived in many latina countries from Mexico to Peru and I have found out even living here in Ecuador that it is best to buy a apartment rather than a house.For sure if you buy a house you will robbed,not if but when.Even if you have 16 foot walls and 240 volt electrical wire running around the house!Do you really want to look at 4 walls!
When you do find a place that you like ask the people that you would like to see what they paid for there taxes last year.You will see what the property is really worth and what you are getting gouged for!Good luck.
Also I have worked and lived in many latina countries from Mexico to Peru and I have found out even living here in Ecuador that it is best to buy a apartment rather than a house.For sure if you buy a house you will robbed,not if but when.Even if you have 16 foot walls and 240 volt electrical wire running around the house!Do you really want to look at 4 walls!
When you do find a place that you like ask the people that you would like to see what they paid for there taxes last year.You will see what the property is really worth and what you are getting gouged for!Good luck.
in Costa Rica from 1972 to 1975 many in the average neighborhoods
put cut glass into the tops of their walls. or planted crown of
thorn bushes which were also a deterrent.. is it the same now
in Ecuador ? current security systems and motion sensors are
probably a much better way to go聽 .. I installed a camera which
shoots visible as well as infrared (can see at night) and broadcasts the signal to my television inside. so I can click
a button and see who is at the front door.. Radio Shack
8 years ago... for $275 !! regards.
put cut glass into the tops of their walls. or planted crown of
thorn bushes which were also a deterrent.. is it the same now
in Ecuador ? current security systems and motion sensors are
probably a much better way to go聽 .. I installed a camera which
shoots visible as well as infrared (can see at night) and broadcasts the signal to my television inside. so I can click
a button and see who is at the front door..
8 years ago... for $275 !! regards.
My husband and I are planning a trip at the beginning of next year. I randomly came a cross an article with the best countries to retire too and Ecuador was one of them. I have read the entire blog and I felt the insight to be helpful. I am sure the fact my hubby and I being retired military and both serving in the middle east as recent as the last three years we great to adapting. We are looking for friends and any helpful information. Thanks
Rory
Rory
If you dont speak ANY spanish now.. your time would be well
spent brushing up via any local resources. When I first moved to
Costa Rica. I enrolled in the Instituto de Lengua in San Jose
and was in class 4 hous per day 5 days a week for about 8 weeks.
聽 聽with no more than 6 or 8 students in each class.. It was the
best $$$ I ever spent.. we covered pronunciation, grammar,
syntax.. vocabulary, all separately in classes which covered
each of those depending on the abilities of the teacher. The
School had almost a decade teaching Missionaries and Pilots
who went into Amazonia and other countries in So America ..and
that was in 1972.. if you are Spanish Fluent, and English Native
its likely that you could be a teacher there. perhaps others on
this blog will elaborate on what they have experienced in language services.聽 聽To never make any effort to become more
Fluent in Spanish is as much an affront as Latins who come
to the States who never learn a word of English聽 聽.. God Speed.
Bill Griffin
spent brushing up via any local resources. When I first moved to
Costa Rica. I enrolled in the Instituto de Lengua in San Jose
and was in class 4 hous per day 5 days a week for about 8 weeks.
聽 聽with no more than 6 or 8 students in each class.. It was the
best $$$ I ever spent.. we covered pronunciation, grammar,
syntax.. vocabulary, all separately in classes which covered
each of those depending on the abilities of the teacher. The
School had almost a decade teaching Missionaries and Pilots
who went into Amazonia and other countries in So America ..and
that was in 1972.. if you are Spanish Fluent, and English Native
its likely that you could be a teacher there. perhaps others on
this blog will elaborate on what they have experienced in language services.聽 聽To never make any effort to become more
Fluent in Spanish is as much an affront as Latins who come
to the States who never learn a word of English聽 聽.. God Speed.
Bill Griffin
HI, regarding medications, is it OK to have your family or doctor send you your meds thru the mail or FedEx?聽 Seems meds would be a lot easier to get that way and you would know what you are getting.
Have lived in Quito and now live in Cuenca. I am more a fan of renting rather than buying. Just seems a safer option. But that is just me.
BTW, Cuenca is in the mountains and has 卤 5,000 permanent residents out of 卤 350,000 who live in the city proper. it reminds me of Snellville, GA which had a sign back when I lived near there: Small enough to know you, large enough to serve you.
Quick note on meds, you can get a lot of the same meds here for a lot less.
BTW, Cuenca is in the mountains and has 卤 5,000 permanent residents out of 卤 350,000 who live in the city proper. it reminds me of Snellville, GA which had a sign back when I lived near there: Small enough to know you, large enough to serve you.
Quick note on meds, you can get a lot of the same meds here for a lot less.
We're in Snellville right now but plan on being Ecuador in 9 months. Seems like a long way off but the time since our decision to move is passing quickly.聽 Maybe we can meet up after we get there
Yes I think you will love Ecuador I live in Montana and Salinas
Ecuador which is on the beach.Also you have the mountains and the jungle to visit.Also when you do reach 65 you get a lot of the perks which you would never get in the USA.
Ecuador which is on the beach.Also you have the mountains and the jungle to visit.Also when you do reach 65 you get a lot of the perks which you would never get in the USA.
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