visa puzzle- living in Bali long term

2POSTS

11 years ago

Can we live in Bali long term..'visa puzzle'

My heart is already set on Bali but I'm yet to completely figure out how with visas....

Our situation is that my husband would be working a fly in fly out job for an airline ie he'll be based in Japan for his job and the plan would be he would fly back for his holidays in Bali- it's 2 weeks work then 2 weeks holiday ongoing. He will be under 180 days in Indonesia so presume he wouldn't be classed as a resident in Bali....so a tourist visa for him??

For me in terms of visas I'm not so sure as we would like to continue running our website design business in Bali ...but I know I wouldn't be allowed to work unless I had a 'kitas' and a work permit. Could i start a company in Bali?...I know there would be steep costs but what would be the costs? We would be prepared to pay out if it was a way to get a kitas. I would want to have the freedom of coming and going from Bali when I wanted to as well ( eg 3-4 times a year) so a single entry 'sosbud' wouldn't suffice. Would a multiple entry business visa work long term for me or would I run into issues?
We're also planning to have children really soon what would happen with visas for them?

We don't have any connections in Indonesia at all currently. Before we would 100% commit to a life in Bali we would be visiting locations, chat to locals and expats - get professional advice...but would be great to hear some feedback on the forum is it really possible for us to settle in Bali and live there long term in terms of visas??

Other stuff to note...We're not legally married - we did a symbolic wedding...it's long story...but we just haven't got round to making it legal yet..would this have any effect on legalities, visa for dependents etc.??

See also

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Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

You and your hubby should fly into Bali and sit and enjoy a chat with other expats.

You can do that most any night at the Fly Cafe in Ubud...although Friday and Saturday nights are best.

Soooo many questions require at least one beer to get serious answers.聽

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

Ubudian wrote:
You and your hubby should fly into Bali and sit and enjoy a chat with other expats.

You can do that most any night at the Fly Cafe in Ubud...although Friday and Saturday nights are best.

Soooo many questions require at least one beer to get serious answers.聽

Thats a good one Roy, but doubt one beer will be enough聽

purple734533 Member

2POSTS

11 years ago

Thanks for your answers...pains me to do it but will have to look elsewhere in SE Asia for a place to live.... we can't move anywhere without our two cats.. and currently there is no entry to Bali with pets. Hope for changes in the policies from the UK in 2015

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

There is no direct entry into Bali...that is true.

However, you can arrange entry via Jakarta.

BTW, you might consider that the sloppy handling of domestic "house cats" into Australia years ago...many of which became feral, almost resulted in the total extinction of several species of marsupials.聽 So maybe it's not always such a good idea to wish for changes in the law.

stumpy Laos Expert

18028POSTS

11 years ago

Try Cambodia. Easy for visas.

thombaugh New member

6POSTS

11 years ago

If you want to bring your cats you can. I know several people who have聽 brought their dogs. As many things here, just need to know the right person.

Not that I would recommend bringing your cats to Bali, unless they are the rough and tumble sort. Owning a pet here can be a tragic affair.

Jade Kalaf Active member

26POSTS

11 years ago

Hi I am fling to Bali on the 30th of this month to look at a Villa for my family. We are planning to move Bali permanently or atleast for 5 years. I had know idea that animals are not allowed in Bali. We live in Australia and we have a dog who is a family member aswell as a trained guard dog, my husband is a fly in fly out worker he is away for a whole month and we have 2 young children so our dog Bear gives me complete peace of mind as he is a amazing guard dog but also loves the children madly. It is our dream to move to Bali we were married there 19 years ago, but I could not leave our dog behind.
If there is any way we can take him with us please can you let me know.
My email address is jandmkalaf@bigpond.com
I would travel to Jakarta or any where if that is the way to get him to Bali.
Our Vet here provides documentation that he is free of all diseases.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

Bli Komang sounds like a great guy, and his web site is very good.聽 Selamat Komang!

I am never one who does anything less than promote and encourage new arrivals to Bali to rely on local Balinese for the invaluable help and kind assistance that they are in such a unique position to provide.

As for your pet dog however, you need the professional assistance of what is the most trusted and relied on method of getting pets into Bali.

That company is called Groovy Pets and they are based in Jakarta.

Currently (and ever since the rabies problem from some years back) there is no way to get a dog or cat legally into Bali except through Jakarta.

Mikewallace76 Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

#10

You could consider Malaysia which is well placed and not so expensive although it doesn't have the exotic feel that Bali has. They have a 10 year social visa called a MM2H (Malaysia My Second Home) and basically you just need to place a fixed deposit into a local bank. The amount depends on your husbands age whether he above or below 50 years old. The only other requirements are proof of a minimum income of at least US$3,000 and to get a local medical insurance. Advantages include being able to buy a car tax free which can reduce the price by around 40%.

Personally, I love Japan and would prefer to live there and travel to Bali every now and again.

Mikewallace76 Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

#11

[Moderated: Off topic]

Jade Kalaf Active member

26POSTS

11 years ago

#12

Hi I returned from Bali 2 weeks ago and spent 3 days in Canggu looking at Villas for my family, looking at living in Bali long term. We want to rent for a year and then look at buying and yes we have a good friend her is Balinse.
I wanted to know other expats her live in Canggu and have children are the only options the Canggu school. I love the school but the fees are going to be hard to pay. Is there any other options for schools if you live in Canggu.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#13

"We want to rent for a year and then look at buying and yes we have a good friend her is Balinse."

By that do you mean that you plan on using her as a nominee on your land title (Hak Milik)?

If so, I strongly urge you to think again, and pursue a Hak Pakai lease situation only.

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#14

Jade Kalaf wrote:
Hi I returned from Bali 2 weeks ago and spent 3 days in Canggu looking at Villas for my family, looking at living in Bali long term. We want to rent for a year and then look at buying and yes we have a good friend her is Balinse.
I wanted to know other expats her live in Canggu and have children are the only options the Canggu school. I love the school but the fees are going to be hard to pay. Is there any other options for schools if you live in Canggu.

Don't know how well you know Bali, how often you visited Bali before or if it was first time but better you rent a villa long term first and then you have a better feeling and still can decide whether or not your Balinese friend will be the nominee in the event you are going to buy any property.

Bear in mind that you will not officially the owner thus follow Roy's suggestion...Hak Pakai seems the best option (except money is not an issue).

Jade Kalaf Active member

26POSTS

11 years ago

#15

We have been to Bali 16 times and we were married there 19 years ago, in the last year we have been 4 times each time for 4 to 6 weeks our friend we have know for 28 years..
My question was not about renting, leasing or buying it was about any other expats who have children and what schools they go to if we are living in Canggu I wanted to know if other expats live there and have children and do there children only go to the Canggu school.
If there are any expats who live in other areas and have children would love to hear where they live and what schools they attend.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#16

So, why does your profile say, "Want to move to Thailand" when you have all these plans for life on Bali?

On your next trip, why not hang around the Canggu Club and mingle with other expats that are sending their kids to school in that area?

indo_expat Member

17POSTS

11 years ago

#17

this is very interesting topics to reply based on my own experienced. I am Indonesian and married with Danish man, we living in Denmark but recently moved to Bali. it is very easy and simple procedure for my Danish husband to get KITAS for one year. for info about this go to websites:

they have English version , so you can just read it. it cost only less then : US. 70 and processing time less than 3 month

after finish 1 year then , you can extend and they give you for 2 years.

now here is the interesting parts , related with your case. since both of you are not Indonesian , nor legally married, nor one of you employed by International company here in Indonesia . it is almost impossible to live here in Bali for long term and apply for KITAS ( Kartu Ijin TInggal Sementara / temporary resident card ).聽 It is wise to save your headache with the Indonesian bureaucracy and just fly in and fly out whenever you feels like it based on tourist visa.

Few people might suggest you to rent a long term lease property or make investment here in Bali in order so you can get your KITAS. this type of suggestions has been prove many times as a scams. as you need to have or appointed聽聽Indonesian sponsorship in any kind聽 investment ( Few property company would easily accommodate your needs) . Most of the time your so called " Indonesian Sponsorship " will leave you on the most time you need them the most.

I meet with this India Guy in Immigrations office in Denpasar, Bali and he almost have tears in his eyes cause when he tried to extend his 1 years visa, using his Indonesian sponsorship from the previous one, he( the sponsor ) was no where to be found. I聽 Feel very sorry for him聽 and hope he find a new sponsor.

anyway " grass in the neighborhood always looks greener than聽 in our own backyard " . keep your logic on guard and do not follow on those " paradise island dreaming"聽 which you do not know.

regards

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#18

鈥溾赌ince both of you are not Indonesian , nor legally married, nor one of you employed by International company here in Indonesia . it is almost impossible to live here in Bali for long term and apply for KITAS ( Kartu Ijin TInggal Sementara / temporary resident card ).鈥�

I鈥檓 sorry, but that is not true.聽 Plenty of single foreigners live on Bali and not employed by any international company with a KITAS visa.聽 Actually, most any of the better known visa agents are more than happy to sponsor a foreigner for a KITAS visa.聽

鈥淔ew people might suggest you to rent a long term lease property or make investment here in Bali in order so you can get your KITAS.鈥�

Obviously a temporary resident visa will not be issued to a foreigner without a steady residence.聽 Also, a KITAS is not required for a foreigner to take a long term rental.

鈥淚 meet with this India Guy in Immigrations office in Denpasar, Bali and he almost have tears in his eyes cause when he tried to extend his 1 years visa, using his Indonesian sponsorship from the previous one, he( the sponsor ) was no where to be found. I聽 Feel very sorry for him聽 and hope he find a new sponsor.鈥�

Hah!聽 With all the visa agents that hang out every day at Kantor Imigrasi, I am shocked that none of them jumped at the chance to sponsor him.聽

All that being said, I do agree with you 100% that using a local to be your 鈥渘ominee鈥� for a land purchase, regardless of how long you鈥檝e known them, is a very risky proposition, and in fact, there is absolutely no valid reason to use an Indonesian sponsor.聽 Moreover, more and more Balinese are refusing to sell their land these days鈥nly leasing it out鈥nd that is a good thing!聽

Cheers!

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#19

Hi Roy,

All buying and selling and stuff on the island of the gods seems never ending. However a question if I may. Lets assume, an Australian leases land off a local person and agrees a fixed date of use and it is agreed that the land can be used for whatever purpose as long as the renter and rentee both agree legally and have it notarised with all the necessary paperwork that would ensue. If that person then builds a property and the owner of the land dies and the land is passed onto a family member who wants the land back, evicts the rentee and then demolishes the place before it is settled in court then what?

This has nothing to do with me its just one of those things in my mind that happens to be floating by?

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#20

Ubudian wrote:
鈥溾赌�

I鈥檓 sorry, but that is not true.聽 Plenty of single foreigners live on Bali and not employed by any international company with a KITAS visa.聽 Actually, most any of the better known visa agents are more than happy to sponsor a foreigner for a KITAS visa.聽

Cheers!

Are you saying that it is legally possible that a visa agent can just sponsor a foreigner for a KITAS ?? I am not talking about a KITAS Lansia.....

If so, how ill it work respectively what are the requirements ??

Jade Kalaf Active member

26POSTS

11 years ago

#21

Thankyou good advice not sure why my profile states Thailand. Bali is the place for us.

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#22

Maybe because most of your other posts are in the Thai/Phuket forum asking the same....

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#23

Luke, assuming this fellow used a hak pakai lease, then the family of the deceased land owner, named in the hak milik and hak pakai would be legally bound to the hak pakai lease and would have to wait until the duration of the lease ended.聽 In essence, the hak mililk land certificate is bound to the hak pakai lease, and it is equal in terms of all land right, permission to build and use (within zoning restrictions), with the exception that the land is not outright owned by the lessee.聽 The hak pakai lease is the most legally proven and able to stand up in court method of a foreigner enjoying all rights of property 鈥渙wnership鈥� but with a time certain limit, and that is generally regarded to not exceed two 25 year lease periods.聽 A hak pakai is not considered property per se and therefore cannot be passed on by way of a last will and testament.聽

Tom, yes, beyond the retirement KITAS for those 55 and over, a single person can still have a KITAS (12 month) using a licensed visa agent as their sponsor so long as they can show residency (prior sosbud/60 day visas renewed and continuous time in Indonesia), and means of financial support.

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#24

Thanks Roy, thats what I thought and exactly why I wont be trying to lease land.聽 Far too completed for me.

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#25

Thanks Roy,

I did not know that this is a legal way to obtain a KITAS, that a licensed agent can sponsor. Still I wonder what kind of license it will be and who is granting it....

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#26

Tom, that was my visa arrangement far before I was able to do the retirement visa, and then the KITAP.聽聽PT Bali Ide was my sponsor and it sure beat having to leave Bali every 6 months for a visa run.

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#27

Ubudian wrote:
Tom, that was my visa arrangement far before I was able to do the retirement visa, and then the KITAP.聽聽PT Bali Ide was my sponsor and it sure beat having to leave Bali every 6 months for a visa run.

Thanks the info Roy,

I heard also from agents in Jakarta sponsoring KITAS, still what I heard as well is that this practice is not really legit so I wonder what kind of license they claim to have to be able to sponsor a KITAS, the Immigration is issuing this license ??

Do not get me wrong but I question that it is 100% legal...

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#28

By licensed visa agent, from what I鈥檓 told, that means a legit business (as with PT Bali Ide) and as opposed to a "free lance" operator.聽

Sponsors of visas for foreigners take on a certain level of responsibility for those they sponsor.聽 BTW, that is exactly why I always tell my Balinese friends to not be so willing to sponsor a sosbud visa for a foreigner.聽 Inherent with that is the idea that an established firm that handles visa matters for foreigners is going to use some due diligence if for no other reason than to protect their own business.聽聽

But for sure, it鈥檚 100% legal.