大咖福利影院

Im not sure if I will get hate for saying this or not. Yes the laws are supposed to allow pedestrians to cross at crosswalks but we also have to be aware of the fact probably 90% of the drivers do not know or do not care. I actually dont remember seeing a crosswalk in Vietnam 5 years ago and now they are everywhere. The unwritten rule of the road is the bigger vehicle takes priority whether we like it or not and we must respect reality more than how it should be if we value our lives. With my wife being pregnant we have been walking and taking the bus/metro a lot more lately and it can make your blood boil how others can drive but always remember to keep yourself safe first. I recently saw a group of (I think Koreans) cross a busy street very confidently with their hands up and a grab car just slowly kept moving forward and physically pushed them out of the way honking. Right or wrong some people just wont stop. My wife who is pregnant has clipped hit by a motorbike speeding down the sidewalk and he had the balls to turn around and yell at us to get out of the way then speed off. We were also crossing the street once on a one way street and we didnt think to look for traffic going the wrong way and she got clipped again by this motorbike going the wrong way down a one way street. At least this guy had the decency to stop and ask if she was ok and apologize over and over but that doesnt always happen. We shouldnt have to do this but now we make sure to always look both ways even on a one way street.

@It2VN

Hello, you have opened a very interesting topic. Before my comments, I gonna share these "you MUST know":

1. Vietnam signed the 1949 Geneva Convention only in the part of聽 "Protocol on Road Signs and Signals" (reason why the international driver licenses (IDP) in this convention are no granted in Vietnam (Canadians, Australians and UnitedStatians avoided)
2. Vietnam signed the 1968 Vienna Convention for the standardization of traffic laws (IDP in this standard are allowed)
3. To get a license the people has to approve a theorical and practical exam. (In the practical examination is maybe how they learned: "if you stop or put your feed in the floor, you don't pass the exam" 馃�� )
4. Have you ever enter in a Thegioididong or FTP shop and feel how welcomed you are?
5. 
   

Hence, they have the International rules, they know the law and they know about kindness, but as @jrharvey mentioned: "They don't care".

Try to be happy, there are some other countries with similar or worst traffic such as Egypt and Indonesia. So this is Vietnam, please don't lose your mind trying to change (correct) them and, finally,聽 follow these basic rules:

1. Rule #1: In Vietnam a road is whatever on which the width of a motorbike fits.
2. Rule #2: No matter if the street is one way only, always always always look behind you before put one foot on the road
3. Rule #3: When crossing the street, always extend your arm raising completely your hand. Don't look pathetic trying to ask them to slow down 馃槪
4. Rule #4: If you hit a biker or want to discuss with them: it is your fault, don't play with fire, or your will need to pay for an expensive interpreter just to do simple explanations in the court.

Drink a Tr脿 Th岷�o M峄檆 with a Saigon cigarette, put any music of Enya in your earphones and breath.

@2- 1) no idea what "Thegioididong or FTP shop" is

2) Can't stand Enya .

aside from that, thanks for the input.

Stop acting like a jerk

Nh岷璸 gia t霉y t峄�c / When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

@It2VN

So this is Vietnam, please don't lose your mind trying to change (correct) them...

Sage advice from member ajairon.

A Vietnamese friend of mine made a comment to me once when we were discussing complaints from foreigners about Vietnam driving habits/traffic rules/licensing. What he said rang true to me.

He said, half-joking, "Vietnam is too Vietnamese for some people".

You'll adapt and get used to the way things are done here, or you won't. One thing you definitely won't do is change things.

I've cautioned many foreigners about those "aesthetic" cross-walk stripes.

1. Crosswalks in Vietnam are for suckers

2. Nobody crosses the street at a 90掳 angle

3. Always cross the street at a 45掳 diagonal angle, making constant eye contact with oncoming traffic. Think of yourself as a large rock being moved upstream while the water passes you on both sides.

4. NEVER BACK UP or turn around

5. a. Motorcycles will maneuver around you if they can clearly discern where you are walking

聽 聽 聽b. Cars won't drive around you. Stop before you enter their lane and let them pass you but DON'T TURN AROUND or back up, because motorbikes will continue to pass you and you will cause an accident if you start backing up or turning around.

聽 聽 聽c. Trucks take right of way from everyone, So be alert if you see a car or a motorbike getting in their way, Just stay out of their lane and let them pass you.

6. Unfortunately under the new traffic laws you will get a ticket for doing this so make sure you use the crosswalk...

@OceanBeach92107

LOL!!

LOLs all round! Probably another reason VN will remain a third world county for the foreseeable future I suppose.

1. Crosswalks in Vietnam are for suckers
2. Nobody crosses the street at a 90掳 angle

3. Always cross the street at a 45掳 diagonal angle, making constant eye contact with oncoming traffic. Think of yourself as a large rock being moved upstream while the water passes you on both sides.

4. NEVER BACK UP or turn around

5. a. Motorcycles will maneuver around you if they can clearly discern where you are walking
聽 b. Cars won't drive around you. Stop before you enter their lane and let them pass you but DON'T TURN AROUND or back up, because motorbikes will continue to pass you and you will cause an accident if you start backing up or turning around.
聽 c. Trucks take right of way from everyone, So be alert if you see a car or a motorbike getting in their way, Just stay out of their lane and let them pass you.

6. Unfortunately under the new traffic laws you will get a ticket for doing this so make sure you use the crosswalk... - @OceanBeach92107

#2- really? then my eyes must be deceiving me when I see it.

I've learnt your other points over time. Sometimes a car a car stops if I continue and raise a hand.

1. Crosswalks in Vietnam are for suckers
2. Nobody crosses the street at a 90掳 angle

3. Always cross the street at a 45掳 diagonal angle, making constant eye contact with oncoming traffic. Think of yourself as a large rock being moved upstream while the water passes you on both sides.

4. NEVER BACK UP or turn around

5. a. Motorcycles will maneuver around you if they can clearly discern where you are walking
b. Cars won't drive around you. Stop before you enter their lane and let them pass you but DON'T TURN AROUND or back up, because motorbikes will continue to pass you and you will cause an accident if you start backing up or turning around.
c. Trucks take right of way from everyone, So be alert if you see a car or a motorbike getting in their way, Just stay out of their lane and let them pass you.

6. Unfortunately under the new traffic laws you will get a ticket for doing this so make sure you use the crosswalk... - @OceanBeach92107
#2- really? then my eyes must be deceiving me when I see it.
I've learnt your other points over time. Sometimes a car a car stops if I continue and raise a hand. - @It2VN

Apologies

I should have said, "Nobody with any common sense"...

1. Crosswalks in Vietnam are for suckers
2. Nobody crosses the street at a 90掳 angle

3. Always cross the street at a 45掳 diagonal angle, making constant eye contact with oncoming traffic. Think of yourself as a large rock being moved upstream while the water passes you on both sides.

4. NEVER BACK UP or turn around

5. a. Motorcycles will maneuver around you if they can clearly discern where you are walking
b. Cars won't drive around you. Stop before you enter their lane and let them pass you but DON'T TURN AROUND or back up, because motorbikes will continue to pass you and you will cause an accident if you start backing up or turning around.
c. Trucks take right of way from everyone, So be alert if you see a car or a motorbike getting in their way, Just stay out of their lane and let them pass you.

6. Unfortunately under the new traffic laws you will get a ticket for doing this so make sure you use the crosswalk... - @OceanBeach92107
#2- really? then my eyes must be deceiving me when I see it.
I've learnt your other points over time. Sometimes a car a car stops if I continue and raise a hand. - @It2VN
Apologies
I should have said, "Nobody with any common sense"... - @OceanBeach9210.

The local council have been out this last week or so repainting lots of crossings in My Khe, lower Son Tra it would appear. Just for laffs, for dumb tourists' insurance claims, no doubt.

1. Crosswalks in Vietnam are for suckers
2. Nobody crosses the street at a 90掳 angle

3. Always cross the street at a 45掳 diagonal angle, making constant eye contact with oncoming traffic. Think of yourself as a large rock being moved upstream while the water passes you on both sides.

4. NEVER BACK UP or turn around

5. a. Motorcycles will maneuver around you if they can clearly discern where you are walking
b. Cars won't drive around you. Stop before you enter their lane and let them pass you but DON'T TURN AROUND or back up, because motorbikes will continue to pass you and you will cause an accident if you start backing up or turning around.
c. Trucks take right of way from everyone, So be alert if you see a car or a motorbike getting in their way, Just stay out of their lane and let them pass you.

6. Unfortunately under the new traffic laws you will get a ticket for doing this so make sure you use the crosswalk... - @OceanBeach92107
#2- really? then my eyes must be deceiving me when I see it.
I've learnt your other points over time. Sometimes a car a car stops if I continue and raise a hand. - @It2VN
Apologies
I should have said, "Nobody with any common sense"... - @OceanBeach9210.
The local council have been out this last week or so repainting lots of crossings in My Khe, lower Son Tra it would appear. Just for laffs, for dumb tourists' insurance claims, no doubt. - @It2VN

Absolutely no doubt that enforcement is cranking up. They want to be able to tell everyone, local and foreigners both, that they shouldn't have missed the crosswalk. Yeah if I get caught using common sense in the future, it's my own dang fault

From the lack of answers to my original final question if you ride and/or drive, I might just assume you all follow the 'when in Rome' pathology.

@It2VN

This is Vietnam, no Roma, so rather Lear to say "Nh岷璸 gia t霉y t峄�c" 馃��. And regarding your question at the end of your initial message, here my answer: In Vietnam the Traffic Law has the same scencial driving norms as the rest of the world (Vienna and Geneva Conventions), and I use to drive as the Law commands: I let the preference of passing to the President/Diplomatic, then to the Emergency trucks, then the Zebra lines. Yes, I also stop at the corners before entering to perpendicular lanes. Many Vietnamese honk or scream to me when I stop, but I DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM

From the lack of answers to my original final question if you ride and/or drive, I might just assume you all follow the 'when in Rome' pathology. - @It2VN

I purposely avoided doing anything to magnify the anger and expressions of violent thought in your original post. I'm guessing that you posted hoping to find like-minded people? I'm glad to see that you didn't

From the lack of answers to my original final question if you ride and/or drive, I might just assume you all follow the 'when in Rome' pathology. - @It2VN

"When in Rome, do as the Romans" is a proverb, not a disease/pathology. It is meant to aid a foreigner in .

The driving style in Vietnam is a characteristic many westerners at first find to be chaotic.

I thought my reply to your (final) question, "How do you behave on the roads here if you ride or drive?" was clear. I've adapted. In fact, I've embraced the VN riding style. Many locals have commented on how I ride like them (often more aggressively than them). That said, I exercise extreme caution whenever I see non-VN tourists/foreigners/expats in my vicinity, be they pedestrians or bike riders.

Do you think that will be more accommodating/acceptable to you?

Admirable to get such feedback about the adaptation to local living. I'm aware of the meaning of the proverb, too.

On a (possibly) related note, extending the observations on rules/law I recently saw on a travel forum a tourist complaining about the airport immigration queue fast-tracking services (which I assume are above board, though who's to say how they really work...) at a major airport in Vietnam. He decided to 'play it by ear' and see what the immigration queues were like upon arrival. Finding long queues, he decided to DIY the fast-track service and to slip 400K VND into each of the passports of him and his wife and reported he was delightfully deplaned and in a taxi within thirty minutes (he didn't report on his taxi experience).聽 The 'When in Rome' proverb of course extends to the corruptible officials as in my previous state of abode, though increasingly less common and overt over there.

On the Philippines traffic point: on my visa-run stay there, the traffic did seem to defer more to legally-crossing pedestrians, and those with 'common sense' crossing roads ad hoc at all angles, though maybe that was just my imagination, or that I was still functioning with my Vietnam traffic expectations.

Just yesterday on my walk, opposite of one of the big hotels along the Danang beach promenade I saw the aftermath聽 of a scooter accident. My photo shows one helmeted westerner among ten others loitering around. A couple looked official, with clipboards, a couple sitting on the pavement.聽 No uniformed police can be seen. Where was it? On a zebra crossing LOLs all round, eh?

From the lack of answers to my original final question if you ride and/or drive, I might just assume you all follow the 'when in Rome' pathology. - @It2VN
I purposely avoided doing anything to magnify the anger and expressions of violent thought in your original post. I'm guessing that you posted hoping to find like-minded people? I'm glad to see that you didn't - @OceanBeach92107

Aside from my off-piste minor rant, I assume you follow the When in Rome proverb too?

--

I'd be genuinely curious to know how thorough the driving and riding lessons and final tests/exams are over here. (and are the test examiners bribable, I wonder...). I have no intention of riding or driving here myself, however. Though I cycled everywhere around town in Italy, I see some brave souls cycling here, often helmetless too. 'Donors', a hospital doctor friend in Italy would call them.

@It2VN

Motorcycles in Canada are often referred to as Donorcycles.

I'd be genuinely curious to know how thorough the driving and riding lessons and final tests/exams are over here. (and are the test examiners bribable, I wonder...)... - @It2VN

A1 License- Up to 175cc, figure-8, no foot down, and a short spin around the block. No theory, no written test.

A2 License- Unlimited cc, 100 question multiple-choice exam (in Vietnamese only, no translator permitted), relatively thorough road test, physical exam (more like a questionnaire).

I've heard that for an extra 200K even if one's foot touches down during the figure-8 A1 test, a license will be issued. This is purely anecdotal.

@Aidan in HCMC

Just a correction, for A1 (as all other license types) the theorical exam is also mandatory. The exemption is when someone already holds a valid driver license of any other type issued by Vietnam, homologated or international

Another point to add is that here you don't see many traffic police (in yellow uniform) and, if you find a small troop of them, stay around for some 10 minutes and you will see how many riders try to escape from them. Many Raiders use to drive without any license or papers

@ajairon

I stand corrected. Thank you.

From the lack of answers to my original final question if you ride and/or drive, I might just assume you all follow the 'when in Rome' pathology. - @It2VN

I think that's a fair assumption, we are only guests in this lovely country.

It's really making a fuss over nothing. It's very easy to adapt to Vietnamese driving

All you need to do is not be entrenched in a Western perspective, be flexible and tolerant. The Vietnamese are in their own country and do as they please; it's up to us foreigners to adapt, unless you think like D*** ****

H茫y gi峄� th谩i 膽峄� nh岷� nh脿ng v脿 hi峄乶 h貌a.

It's really making a fuss over nothing. It's very easy to adapt to Vietnamese drivingAll you need to do is not be entrenched in a Western perspective, be flexible and tolerant. The Vietnamese are in their own country and do as they please; it's up to us foreigners to adapt, unless you think like Donald Trump.H茫y gi峄� th谩i 膽峄� nh岷� nh脿ng v脿 hi峄乶 h貌a. - @Olibrius

Yes. That Western perspective. . . .聽 a sort of arrogance that says deep in the mind, "The way we do it is THE ONLY way to do it. These backward types will one day catch up and crawl out of their Third-World mentality." SMH.

I ride a bicycle a lot in Ho Chi Minh City. And I聽 wear a helmet.

I understand that what regulates traffic here is the concept of "flow." The vehicles behave as would solid objects floating in a liquid and flowing from relatively open to relatively constricted (smaller diameter) pipes. The heavier the vehicle, the more momentum it has and thus the more dangerous it is to smaller-mass objects like other vehicles, motorbikes, bicycles, and pedestrians.

Sometimes, in harmony with both the concept of flow and the physical properties of flow, I see a hundred motor bikes instantly and in harmonious action, change course then correct course as a bus turns left in front of of them. The motorbikes look and act like a flock of birds or a school of fish instantly and fluidly making this course correction. No problem! Graceful.

My brother, who lives in India, says that Sai Gon drivers are way more safe, accommodating, and patient than drivers in India -- and my experience there confirms his opinion.

Even in heavy Sai Gon traffic, I don't feel scared on my bike AND I don't do things that "challenge" the hierarchy of where a bicycle is on the weight/mass food chain! I never let another vehicle get between me and the curb when I'm turning right. I protect my right flank. Conversely, I would never insert myself on my bicycle between another right-turning vehicle and the curb, especially a bus or truck!

I try to keep a 360-degree awareness of what's around me and brake or pedal accordingly. I stay mostly to the far right and like riding on one-way streets for longer hauls.

I use other vehicles or groups of motorbikes as "protection" when going through large intersections with roundabouts and huge expanses of pavement. I'm safe in the middle of a flock of bikes or "downwind" beside or behind another vehicle which blocks the opposing traffic.

In the United States, the concept of right-of-way has a lot of uh, traction, in traffic flow. No such concept operates in Ho Chi Minh City except that the larger vehicle basically has the right-of-way simply because of the damage it could do to the lighter, less massive vehicles -- and their drivers and passengers -- that try to assert their supremacy in "the flow."

Be safe out there, everyone!

Hello everyone,

To clarify my intervention, let鈥檚 keep the discussion focused on the original topic and steer clear of politics. 馃槈

@Cheryl

OK, understood, and my apologies.