Child naming process and dual citizenship?

70POSTS

8 years ago

I'm Australian, my Viet partner and I are expecting our first born in October. No, we are not married. What are our options for naming the child? Do we have to go with a Vietnamese name or can go with English name. ( I seen in here some people were able to use lawyers to get a English name approved). Are there any implications with the child having an english name? We intend on staying in Vietnam for good.

Also, the matter of dual citizenship. How does that work... just in case we do require it in the future.

Many thanks

See also

Getting married in Vietnam - Guide
Naming infant for Vietnamese birth certificate - 57 Replies
process of getting a Vietnam citizenship recently? - 2 Replies
Dual Citizenship Process - Child of American and Vietnamese - 27 Replies
Dual Citizenship issues for Vietnam - 11 Replies
Dual citizenship in Vietnam for a Viet Kieu? - 319 Replies
FRENCH - VIETNAMESE DUAL NATIONALITY - 4 Replies

Thaiger Banned

299POSTS

8 years ago

no probs for me, in same situation. full english name

ralphnhatrang Serial expat

599POSTS

8 years ago

The problem with dual citizenship is that the dual citizen must leave and re-enter VN using their VN passport only, using their foreign passport is not allowed, so giving VN immigration the chance to screw them around at the airport.

1 member reacted to this post

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

TigerPlease, in your own thread /forum/viewtopic.php?id=760457 #4 Ciambella already wrote something about the childs naming.

I am also interested on more information about the childs naming.

We want to give the child my wife's surname and my wife wants to give the child two given names (a foreign and a Vietnamese).
Is this also accepted to obtain Vietnamese citizenship after birth?

I want the child to become a Vietnamese citizen after birth.
After that, I will register the child in my country and he or she will automatically become a citizen of my country and thus become double citizenship.

TigerPlease Active member

70POSTS

8 years ago

Sounds good. I'll probably just use a lawyer to try make things simple. Time is money afterall

Thaiger Banned

299POSTS

8 years ago

Woah, i never heard that.

How would they know? they cross check foreign passengers against a vietnamese passport holders list?

THIGV ViP

4427POSTS

8 years ago

ralphnhatrang wrote:
The problem with dual citizenship is that the dual citizen must leave and re-enter VN using their VN passport only, using their foreign passport is not allowed, so giving VN immigration the chance to screw them around at the airport.

I inquired about this once and got a few replies based on people's experience.聽 /forum/viewtopic.php?id=711404

Based on your experience and theirs, it would still seem that you would have to show your non-VN passport to the airline agent, not a government agent, as no airline will let you board without a visa or a passport from the destination country.聽聽After that, you will have to show the VN passport at the immigration exit point.聽 This is where they try to catch people on overstays.聽 I know on my last exit, the woman pored over my many VEC renewals hoping to find a gap between them so that she could fine me.聽 If you showed the other nation passport at this point, they would probably try to say you were in the country illegally.聽 If your VN passport has no visas to the destination, I don't think they really care.聽 It is still not an entirely upright process, but I have the impression that for VN passport holders, the hassles at entry and exit are a lot less than they were a decade or two ago.

It may take some acrobatics when traveling, but overall I think the advantages of dual citizenship seem positive, particularly if one wants to buy property in VN or retire/reside for extended periods.

1 member reacted to this post

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

I went through the naming process and the birth certificate process. If the child has a foreign parent they can name them anything they wish. However, that being said, the folks at the vital statistics office do not always agree or understand or something. But use a lawyer and they have no problem getting it done. A Vietnamese child must be named approved Vietnamese names.
You can really get in a mess if you do not get the VNese BC first then the foreign BC after that. In the case of an American getting Certificate of Birth Abroad you can name the child anything you wish. Does not have to be anything like his Vietnamese name. You have two months to get the VNese BC then you will be accessed a fine. But the fine is so small it really does not matter.

THIGV ViP

4427POSTS

8 years ago

As Vietnamese women do not typically change to their husband's surname, children are usually given the father's surname regardless of the marital situation.聽 Presumably following this same pattern would result in the child of a foreigner still being given the father's surname.聽 I would suggest just going with the flow and allowing a Vietnamese given name.聽 I have said this before but stay away from names that could be misconstrued in the father's home country.聽 I actually encountered a Chinese student today whose given name was Shiting, written as one word.聽 Try to explain why this is important to your spouse even if her father's name is Phuc and she wants to give the name to her son.聽 Almost surely, the child will spend some portion of his/her life in your home country.聽 Having a Vietnamese name should be fine and might even be considered exotic for a woman, but be careful about the unintended homonyms.

Contrary to what Vagabondone says I would respectfully disagree and counsel against using a different combination of names on the Consular Report of Birth Abroad (if you are from the US) or whatever mechanism your country uses.聽 If you choose a different name on that document, your child will be looking at a lifetime of attaching notarized statements to everything to explain the difference.聽 Also note that the US State Dept. states that the CRBA is a document to establish US citizenship.聽 It is not a birth certificate, so that is another reason to get the VN birth certificate first.

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#10

Oh I think someone misread what Vagabonde said. He actually said 鈥�..... you can....鈥� He did not recommend any naming convention. And I agree completely with the cautionary advice on using Vietname names that might be understood a different way such as Bich and Phuc etc.

2 members reacted to this post

ralphnhatrang Serial expat

599POSTS

8 years ago

#11

Also avoid 'Dung'.聽 'Kim', meaning 'gold', works in both Vietnamese and English. My daughter's name is An, meaning 'peace', chosen for the same reason, and is similarly easy to read and pronounce in English.

THIGV ViP

4427POSTS

8 years ago

#12

Anh is of course the masculine identifier name in Vietnam but could be confused with Ann in English.聽 Of course it is usually used as a second name so maybe OK that way.

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#13

Vagabondone posted:

If the child has a foreign parent they can name them anything they wish.
...
A Vietnamese child must be named approved Vietnamese names.

What exactly of them both?聽

In the case of an American getting Certificate of Birth Abroad you can name the child anything you wish.
...
Does not have to be anything like his Vietnamese name.

That means the child can have two identities?
Very surprised that this should be possible.

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#14

Andy, I am not really sure what you mean...."what exactly of them both"?
In the case of two Vietnamese parents that have a child they must name the child approved Vietnamese names. For example they could name a child Cong Duy Le. But they could not name him Benjamin Duy Le. Yet, if one parent were, say, from Australia they could name the child Benjamin Duy Le.
Not that you must submit Vietnamese names for approval. But if you come up with some off-the-wall name and the officials at the office that does your child's Vietnamese birth certificate does not think it is proper naming for VNese, for lack of a better word, they can deny it. There have been post on this on this forum before where the desire name was denied as I recall.
Gosh I wish I had never mentioned the fact you COULD name a child anything you wish on their U.S. Certificate of Birth Abroad. But yes if you went that route they would have two identities. But this happens all the time in many countries, thus the term AKA ( also knowns as). I am not advocating doing this. But there is no prohibitions agains it when dealing with the U.S. State Department. Might not be the same in some countries I do not know.
But yes, you can name them anything you wish with the caveat of the sir name. Just like if the child was born in America you could name them what you wished. Hope that helps clarify.

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#15

BTW I think someone is mistaken when they say if you have dual citizenship you must show your Vietnamese passport in order to leave VN. Dual citizenship means just that in countries that allow it. Your passport identifies to which country you are a citizen. It does not authorize you to enter and exit a country. A visa is used for that purpose. For a dual citizen, when entering Vietnam he would show his Venue passport, no visa required. That same person would use his other passport ( say US passport) to enter the USA, no visa required. You show your appropriate passport upon exit to have you visa cancelled.

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#16

And yes THIGV as you asked in the thread you referenced before you are exactly correct. In all your wife's dealings with her departure from the US she would should the airlines agent her Vietnamese passport. This to prove to the agent that the agent does not need to see a visa for your travel to Vietnam ( if she was stopping in another country to visit that required a visa she would have to have it).
One she gets ready to board the plane in the USA she would again show her Vietnamese passport. Once she arrives in VN she would present her VNese passport to immigrations to show she is a VNese citizen thus requires no visa.
Now when she gets ready to leave Vietnam all would be reversed. She would show the airlines agent her US passport ( for the same reason...no us visa required). When she arrives at the airport in America she would show customs her US passport so they know she is a US citizen that requires no visa for her entry and stay in the USA. Trip complete!!

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#17

Vagabondo, thank you for the clarification.

I missunderstood because you said "a Vietnamese child".
When my child get a Vietnamse birth certivicate he/she is also a "Vietnamese cild"聽

Never heard about AKA. I will google to know more about that.聽

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#18

Vagabondone wrote:
And yes THIGV as you asked in the thread you referenced before you are exactly correct. In all your wife's dealings with her departure from the US she would should the airlines agent her Vietnamese passport. This to prove to the agent that the agent does not need to see a visa for your travel to Vietnam ( if she was stopping in another country to visit that required a visa she would have to have it).
One she gets ready to board the plane in the USA she would again show her Vietnamese passport. Once she arrives in VN she would present her VNese passport to immigrations to show she is a VNese citizen thus requires no visa.
Now when she gets ready to leave Vietnam all would be reversed. She would show the airlines agent her US passport ( for the same reason...no us visa required). When she arrives at the airport in America she would show customs her US passport so they know she is a US citizen that requires no visa for her entry and stay in the USA. Trip complete!!

And which passport do you use to book your flights?
Then you can't book return flights.

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#19

Yes, indeed he is your child would be of Vnese blood but not necessarily a Vietnamese citizen. When you get into birth certificates you get info citizenship issues.
AKA line I mentioned is an acronym for Also known as.
This can be applied in many ways. For example, many people in VN take a Western nickname e.g Cindy. But the Vietnamese birth certificate says their name is Bitch An Le. Later on the application for something and they ask their name on the application. In addition, they may ask if you gave any AKS鈥檚. In the example I use Bitch An Le would have to I include that she has been known or called Cindy.
Also in the case of different names on two countries birth certificates. You would actually need to include as an AKA the name on your other birth certificate. Although in most cases no one would ever know.
Hile that helps explain AKA a bit better.

ralphnhatrang Serial expat

599POSTS

8 years ago

#20

#12 - "Anh is of course the masculine identifier name in Vietnam ..."

If only it were so simple.聽 'Anh' changes its meaning when used in a compound word. Such as, 'anh 膽脿o - cherry' and 'anh th瓢 - heroine, both of which are use as female names.

#15 -聽 "BTW I think someone is mistaken when they say if you have dual citizenship you must show your Vietnamese passport in order to leave VN" -
My wife received this advice from Immigration Police six months ago. She was further advised that the VN visa in her Australian passport would be cancelled. At that point she decided not to decline reclaiming her VN citizenship.

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#21

Seems like someone made the mistake of showing the incorrect passport to the incorrect immigration officer. Had your wife simply presented her VNese passport to the VNese immigration officer they would have had no way of knowing she held dual citizenship or was the holder of an Australian passport. Quite understandable they would want to cancel a visa she never needed in the first place. Lesson learned.

ralphnhatrang Serial expat

599POSTS

8 years ago

#22

You misread my post, sorry it was badly written. Having completed the entire process to reclaim her VN citizenship, when my wife went to the Immigration Police office to sign for her VN citizenship and passport, she was told that she would have to use a VN passport to enter and leave the country, and so she聽 declined to reclaim her VN citizenship. She is still an Australian citizen only and not a dual citizen聽 and never did get her VN passport.

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#23

My bad.

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#24

ralphnhatrang wrote:
#12 - "Anh is of course the masculine identifier name in Vietnam ..."

If only it were so simple.聽 'Anh' changes its meaning when used in a compound word. Such as, 'anh 膽脿o - cherry' and 'anh th瓢 - heroine, both of which are use as female names.

#15 -聽 "BTW I think someone is mistaken when they say if you have dual citizenship you must show your Vietnamese passport in order to leave VN" -
My wife received this advice from Immigration Police six months ago. She was further advised that the VN visa in her Australian passport would be cancelled. At that point she decided not to decline reclaiming her VN citizenship.

Ralph, how can I find the post # when I open the thread with my mobile phone?
I can only see the # when I open the thread with the web browser on the computer.

ralphnhatrang Serial expat

599POSTS

8 years ago

#25

Sorry, I can't help you, I have the same problem.聽

Thaiger Banned

299POSTS

8 years ago

#26

Moderated by Bhavna 7 years ago
Reason : Could get members in trouble

GuestPoster0147 Guest

0POSTS

8 years ago

#27

Boy I sure threw sand in the ointment with my statement you could name a child anything you wish on a CErtificaye of Birth Abroad for a US citizens child. Can I redact that. For me I would never do it. We names our child an American and Vietnamese calling name and my sir name. So it is a seemless no hassle.
So all...... please forget I said it.聽

1 member reacted to this post

Bazza139 ViP

1257POSTS

8 years ago

#28

Agreed!聽聽 Say Who.?聽聽

Terry Broad Member

3POSTS

8 years ago

#29

I'm a traditionalist when it comes to names so it was very easy for our son.聽 Gave him my fathers name, Michael, and my wifes mothers maiden name, Nguyen.聽 That honoured her big time.聽 As you may know, in Vietnam women keep their maiden name but the children are all given their fathers Surname.聽 We asked Nan first.聽 This, using the maiden name as a middle name, and one that the child could us as a Viet first name I don't believe is very common in Vietnam.聽 So Michael was born in NZ and immediately got NZ citizenship and birth cert.聽 My wife had previously become a NZ citizen and some time later had her Viet citizenship taken off her, and Viet passport expired.聽 Firstly through the Wellington, NZ Embassy of Vietnam she got her citizenship and new Viet Passport.聽 To show her Viet origins she used her Viet birth cert, and her parents birth certs and marriage cert.聽聽Now to get Michael his Viet stuff.聽 Just to complicate things she had been married to a pommy guy and apart from taking his name had also taken a European first name.聽 We got married which gave her my and Michael's surname.聽 Now we applied again through the Wellington Viet Embassy for a Viet birth cert for Broad Nguyen Michael using all the aforementioned Viet birth certs and marriage certs.聽 This showed his connections and tied in the maternal line.聽 The embassy loved the recognition of his grandmother.聽 It showed a serious intent of a foot in both camps/cultures.聽 The birth cert came through and almost as automatic with an application a Viet Passport.聽 They have now agreed to give me a visa exemption cert.聽 So no more 3mth visa applications.

Andrew Paul Gregory Active member

26POSTS

8 years ago

#30

same here, no problem with naming, although the citizenship thing will require lots of paperwork from the Aus govt if the baby is born in VN. You will need copies of the birth certificate with your name as father, proof that you were in a relationship at the time of conception, and possibly a DNA test. This process can take a few months.