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Warning-real estate in Panama is not what it seems

SawMan
#41
There is a Panama entity called "Panama Portfolio.com S.A."聽 The owners / subscribers are listed as:

****

The website does not show any completed projects or actual construction in progress.聽 Looks more like real estate investors, not developers so much. Good luck.

Moderated by Priscilla 9 years ago
Reason : name of persons removed
BRUMMY
#42
Yes, that's what I just noticed too.聽 I looked at all their 'projects' but saw none completed, or even started.聽 Thanks so much for your help.聽 Please let me know if you can find any more dirt.聽 I need to know this
SawMan
#43
This is a link to Panama Equity website listing lots and land for sale (not all, just the ones this firm cares to advertise.)



As you scroll through the listings, you'll find a wide range of these lot developments, including in Pedasi.聽 One such development in Pedasi is Andromeda.聽 Sales of lots in this development have been going on since 2008 or 2009 (my estimate and recollection) and is and has been promoted as an upscale, gated community.聽 Check out the pictures and you'll notice very few houses built.聽 I am not criticizing Andromeda -聽 It is one of the few聽 lot sale developments I know of that actually built a neighborhood pool/social center, as the pictures depict.聽 The developers put some real money into the project.聽 But, realize that in many of these communities the developer might not be too committed to actually building anything and if it does it might not be built out for ten years, if then.聽 Unless you're 50 and retiring in over ten years, you might find yourself running out the clock awaiting the idyllic lifestyle you're being sold.

Call Kent Davis - he's at Panama Equity - or someone other than the promoter to find out a bit more on the development, the area and the people and money (if any) backing them.
BRUMMY
#44
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!

I will be definitely contacting him.
BRUMMY
#45
Hi SawMan,聽 I sent you a message (personal) regarding all this.聽 Just wondering if you saw it.聽 If you chose not to respond to it that's okay but did just wonder if you received.
SawMan
#46

BRUMMY wrote:

Hi SawMan,聽 I sent you a message (personal) regarding all this.聽 Just wondering if you saw it.聽 If you chose not to respond to it that's okay but did just wonder if you received.


Replied.聽 聽:sleep

BRUMMY
#47
The post on this forum you sent the sleepy emoticon for was posted before I received the personal message from you.聽 Sorry if I'm crashing buffet time for you :D
B
#48
I'm looking into Cocobeach as well... suppose to check it out in April. Is it legit? What did you think? Do you have a lawyer you can share?
B
#49
Hi Sawman, Do you know anything about the聽 Coco beach project in Chiriqui. Can you help?
F
#50
Has anyone given any thought to the "possible" de-valuation of the US Dollar"?
I'm seeing emails everyday warning people and I'm concerned about what I
would do if my retirement funds were not "valued or available" as they are now.聽 Any thoughts or
suggestions?

Thanks
Suzan
SawMan
#51

FlaGirl wrote:

Has anyone given any thought to the "possible" de-valuation of the US Dollar"?
I'm seeing emails everyday warning people and I'm concerned about what I
would do if my retirement funds were not "valued or available" as they are now.聽 Any thoughts or
suggestions?

Thanks
Suzan


There is no currency risk if you're an American or otherwise hold your investment assets in USD as Panama's official currency (Balboa) is pegged to the USD but as everyone knows the USD is for all practical purposes the currency of Panama.聽 So, any "de-valuation" of the USD would only affect the cost of imported goods coming from non-U.S. countries.

But, where's this de-valuation rumor coming from?聽 The USD has soared over the past few years.聽 Ask any Canadian expat in Panama -- they've seen their CAD buy about 35% less USD than it did a few years ago.聽 And, with Fed increasing their rate, it's more attractive and thus more difficult to see it falling in value relative to other currencies.聽 You might be the victim of "fake" news.

B
#52
Thank you for your help! :)
B
#53
I also got a lot of problems with buying land and other things. One advise, go and do everything yourself, bring your workers, rent the machines and manage everything from start to finish. The companies in panama are stealing your money and i have a lot of clients that are complaining about cheap materials being used.
Panama is a big fake country where all is a lie. I did not know that there is any country in the world that is worse than many African countries. But i guess i found it.
kristc99
#54
Why are you still here? I'm sorry you have had such a bad time but this is definitely not everyone's experience. Some of us are really happy here. Rather than come here and spout nothing but negativity, maybe you could use the time to find another place to live.
3 members reacted to this post
B
#55
I appreciate your honesty!! Thank you for telling the truth!! @tecnorado
B
#56
Its just to warn people so they might be careful with their investments because nobody will tell you the truth on the internet and i am sick of this fake stories with nice pictures that you find on all the websites.
I am doing business here and meet a lot of strangers and almost everyone of them had serious issues in Panama.
kristc99
#57
I understand one must be very careful doing business or buying property. It is a lot more complicated with different laws, customs, language, etc. And, one should take with a grain of salt anything said by someone trying to sell you something. But, to say all of Panama is a lie and the whole country is terrible, no. The vast majority of Panamanians I know are hard working, ethical, and kind.

The Panamanians I know in construction do bring their own workers, rent their own machines, and are on site every day overseeing the project. As I understand it, if you want things done right this is how to do it. I think it's the same in the US. I built a house in the past and I was on site every day, and there still were things that didn't turn out as requested.

I don't agree with your constant negativity and declaring the whole country a disaster. This isn't warning people of possible pitfalls. It's just being hateful.
1 member reacted to this post
BRUMMY
#58
I must say that I read all the negative feedback from SawMan and others who sent comments when I first posted on this site about the Coco Beach project.聽 I did all the research about the owners, and about why the project stalled in the beginning, I won't bore you all with the details but it was all perfectly reasonable.聽 I have been to the project, and all the water, and power etc. is in.聽 The project is being built by a Panamanian company with over 40 years in the business.聽 We are purchasing a lot, and Henri Kerkoff the part owner of the company has answered all our questions and we are satisfied with the contract after seeking the opinion of a Panamanian Lawyers recommended to us by great folks we聽 found on a Panamanian forum from Canada.聽 They have lived in Puerto Armuelles where Coco Beach is located for 18 years.聽 We met up with them when we were there.聽 As far as we are concerned, apart from our Canadian dollar, Panama has a lot to offer.
1 member reacted to this post
B
#59
One example, my business partner has ordered a kitchen 3 months ago, which should be installed in the same week. The Panamanian owned company were not able to deliver it since 3 months because they just felt not doing it (typical laziness) but they have already been paid. after going there several times to reclaim the money they finally returned it. yesterday my business partner called another company which is owned by Venezuelan guys and this morning they started the work almost in time and fixed everything.
B
#60
Good luck Brummy, from what I know. They are trying to hire this company with over 40 years experience but have not contracted with them yet... i'm sorry, that's a red flag to me and there are many!聽 Not trying to scare you. If you have proof of this, then good for you and all the best of luck!!
Carneal
#61
Kris,
I agree with you. I have only visited once. I don't know the ends and outs, but I if I were to live there and found any of the negative comments聽 to be true. I would leave. Everyone has a right to their opinion.
BRUMMY
#62
I am certainly in agreement with people doing what's right for them, however, I am against people using a public forum to issue incorrect facts about ANY person or company. Here are the FACTS about Coco Beach from the owner of the company Henri Kerkoff. Over and out from me!!
.......................

The construction of CocoBeach is professionally managed by Aseviviendas S.A., whose roots have been established over 40 years ago. The company and it鈥檚 founders are renown in Panama for their integrity and quality.
Aseviviendas founders have been presidents of Panama鈥檚 most prominent architect association and advisers to the ministry of housing and development of Panama during various administrations. They have been successfully involved in design and construction of many private as well as government projects in Panama.

Aseviviendas has assigned Engineer Ricardo Choy to supervise daily construction in CocoBeach. Ricardo Choy has been educated in the US at the Louisiana State University and acquired his master degree in Civil engineering at the University of Missouri Rolla.
Ricardo has constructed various residential communities in the province of Chiriqui.
1 member reacted to this post
B
#63
Whatever, get over yourself. He told me the same information over the phone. They didn't have a contrat yet!!! That is NOT false information. This forum is nothing but drama... so I will remove myself my this toxicity!聽 Over and out! Pfft!
1 member reacted to this post
Fred
#64
Deals in many countries don't follow the laws and norms of other countries, something to be aware of when considering any large spend.

That isn't an excuse for any possible rip off artists, just a note to take care when buying abroad.

I notice a post or two has managed to cause upset so perhaps a little chilling out would be nice. :)
B
#65
Yes chill out because its only your money not ours. That is what Panamanians used to say. Its only your money, your car, your property, your life, your problem聽 (even if they caused it) . So it does not matter to them.
Fred
#66

tecnorado wrote:

Yes chill out because its only your money not ours. That is what Panamanians used to say. Its only your money, your car, your property, your life, your problem聽 (even if they caused it) . So it does not matter to them.


chilled out Fred wrote:

Deals in many countries don't follow the laws and norms of other countries,


As I said, be careful with your cash then it's hard work to rip you off.
I picked that gem up within a few days of living in a new country but some just don't seem to get it.
Expats are often targeted because they still think "home", not local.

1 member reacted to this post
SawMan
#67
So, taking what we're being told at face value, the developers may have hired (or intend to hire) a well regarded architectural firm to design the project and oversee construction.聽 So what?聽 I can name a number of beautiful developments and projects in Panama designed by extremely professional architects who prepared wonderful renderings of the future completed projects that never got built.聽 That's not the problem.聽 In fact, that's the easy part.聽 The architectural firms know they will be paid because without their work and involvement the developer has no chance to collect deposits from buyers.聽 That is, the developer needs the "sizzle" to sell the "steak."

The questions that need to be asked pertain to construction and financing source.聽 What experience and finances do the developers have?聽 (Spoiler alert:聽 they don't use their own money.)聽 Do they have financing in place to fund construction?聽 Who is the builder they hired to perform the construction work? For all their faults, contractors do not work for free (for long).聽 To what extent are the developers intending to fund construction from deposits collected from prospective buyers?聽 聽What bank is involved on the construction loan?

Good luck
B
#68
My advise is, do not invest in Panama. This country is fake. The economy is fake.
You can only buy but in most cases you can never sell. The prices are abnormal high. I wonder if the constructions can even last more than 10 years without problems.
Panama is a country where the whole system is based on how to rip people off as fast as possible. In my first year in Panama i have been more than 100 times to different lawyers and police because of problems with the locals. In Asia i never needed a lawyer and in Africa i needed it only one time in 5 years because my landlord was misbehaving.聽
I have lived in Asia and Africa for many years and had my own companies. So i think i have the experience to compare.
Lauke
#69
I can confirm what Brummy said about the developers. We have bought land too from the same developer, not in Coco Beach however but in the mountains of Chic谩. I checked the company, met de owners and the contracter who is going to build there and showed a Panamanian lawyer the contract. Everything is fine as far I can see and they act in a correct way is my experience and I have been in contact with them a lot. I visited the development in Chic谩 twice and spoke to the people in town. Actually, I am from Holland too and the agency of the company is very close where I live. I also visited the agency in Holland. I think it is good to be careful with such an investment, but my experience so far with them is very good. I'm sure many rip offs have been taking place with such type of projects in Panama, but it doesn't mean they are all like this. I am confident these projects will be very good and I have no doubts in this company, but that's my personal point of view for what it's worth...
1 member reacted to this post
S
#70
I'm interested in Coco Beach as well. I'm going in down in a couple of months. What did you think about it?
House Tyrell
#71
I agree with you completely: do your research!!! And it doesn't take long to learn that you NEVER buy anything that is under construction. You can either build it yourself- and that means you physically doing most of the work and overseeing all the rest or buying from the existing inventory.
B
#72
Yes i would not advise you to construct unless you know construction work yourself or you have very good local friends that will do correct work.
If you just going to contract any company or any workers they will use inferior materials, steal your tools, your money, everything will be very slow and expensive and the quality of work is also bad and you have to pay another person afterwards to repair it or do it yourself. There is also no guarantee in any work of the locals. They installed tiles for me and in the first days many of them lifted up and were moving because they did not use correct glue to glue them. They told me there is no guarantee and run away. In the end i had to fix them myself.
BRUMMY
#73
As I have said in previous posts, we are happy with our purchase at Coco Beach.聽 The town has just celebrated the signing of a contract with Del Monte, which will be bringing a huge boost to the economy there - this can only be good for the project.

We have only positive comments about the company and staff overseeing Coco Beach, and they are totally transparent - you can go to their office in Panama City and meet everyone involved and be fully informed on what is going on.
1 member reacted to this post
S
#74
Good morning, Congratulations on your purchase! The video rendition of the project looks beautiful. Apparently you were happy with the development. I'm going down in December to see the project. How was the beach, water, area? I would appreciate as much information about your visit as possible, good, bad or indifferent. I'm interested because I want to escape the NYC cold winters when I retire and return once the weather is nice and toasty, lol.
Thanks
AZPugGirl
#75
Hi Brummy and other potential future neighbors!聽 I'm going in Nov to check out Coco Beach and other options in the area.聽 I appreciate your info and also wanted to throw out there a couple other options on building.聽 One is container homes.聽 I'm thinking about working with someone local to build my home here and then ship the container there and have it placed.聽 I like the idea of how solid they are, the fact that they CAN be moved if there was call for it and that at a minimum I could deal with someone local or at least IN the USA who I can fully communicate with to build what we want.聽 I'm a Real Estate Broker here of 19 years and pretty savvy on residential property purchase and builds (here, of course).聽 That said, I wouldn't buy from a builder there without being there, as well.聽 If I did, I'd need to have some contractual contingencies, but as pointed out that may be here nor there and who wants to have to sue to attempt enforcement, anyways.聽 Anyone else who has been there (I saw a couple other people talking about going down), please say hi and any info is appreciated.聽 I will share what I learn after my Nov trip, as well.聽
Also, Panama makes sense on paper for so many reasons, is it perfect?聽 No.聽 Neither is Phoenix, for sure.聽 I believe the gamble is much less so here than it is in SO many places in the world today with the current insanity going on all over.聽 I feel that market is safer to invest in than Phoenix right now, even.
dumluk
#76
The project at Coco Beach is moving ahead..The location is prime....I go there a lot to surf, and the gates are open and they have installed a shower and a rancho on the beach in front of the waves......Its a pristine location with tremendous potential.....The lots are good size and the water at least is finally in, but not sure about the elect.....They keep the beach real clean and swept there making it one of the cleanest beaches in Chiriqui.......the camino leading to the development needs work....Its rough........I think prices for the lots are a bit high, but then I think Panama is generally overpriced now across the board, unless you get off the beaten track........But end of the day, Cocos Beach is the best most consistent surf in Chiriqui and a good wave can make a town, put a spot on the world map.........The project was in limbo for a long time. I assume the Dutch developers had money issues, but it seems to be back moving again......I give em thumbs up for choice of location and concept...........It will in the long term be a very nice spot........
1 member reacted to this post
Lauke
#77
Good to know, thanks for the info! The other projects of them in the mountains are moving ahead too with first houses being build next January.
1 member reacted to this post
Tough1sweet1
#78
Tecnorado is absolutely right.聽 聽Do Not.聽 Do Not Ever buy anything in Panama.聽 Fully 30 percent of foreigners get ripped off.聽 Either nothing gets built, or it's built and you don't get the title.聽 I know many people who got ripped off including a realtor from the U.S. who bought 12 condos for over a million dollars.聽 He paid the mortgages of over $10K a month for nearly a year until the so called developer told him that he could not get the required permits from the government.聽 I warned a doctor NOT to buy into a specific project he didn't listen and he lost his entire investment.聽 聽And in case you haven't figured it聽 out, the banks acted in collusion聽 with the developer.聽 Also, the judicial system is entirely corrupt.聽 A聽 judge back-dated one developer's bankruptcy petition so that he owed no one a聽 penny.聽 Please Google "H.G. Hoteles and "Ibiza - Coronado".聽 聽Right now the Bank of Nova Scotia is about to be sued for confiscating the FULLY PAID for apartments of some gringos and elderly, thus vulnerable, Panamanians.聽 This story is going to blow up worldwide about their conduct in Panama.聽 Mind you, this is not a Panamanian bank, but a bank from the first world country of Canada.聽 聽The Vice President of Risk Management, Sebastian Fiszman was quoted as saying "You can do anything you want to in Panama".聽 Which is in fact true.聽 It is sort of like the wild wild west.聽 聽You can buy down your jail time here -- legally.聽 You can judge shop.聽 聽Do not buy real estate here and do not open a business here.聽 Your largest business expenses will be bribes.聽 Your capital will be stolen.聽 I have nothing to gain by writing this.聽 And to the British couple moving here end of 2017/2018, I only knew one British family here, and they were not people you would want as friends.
celmira9
#79
As a Panamanian, I would agree with you.聽 I would not purchase property there.聽 聽I have heard of horror stories concerning the purchase of land by other Panamanians for investment purposes.聽 Very sad. Some ex-pats are surviving as best they can because at this juncture they are financially unable to return to the U.S.
B
#80
I have a friend who bought lots of land in Canada to build an eco resort
he had all the permits but when he wanted to start construction
a higher authority blocked him he is now stuck with worthless land
Panama Canada different names same sh.t

maybe you want to listen what a dutch banker has to say
search Ronald Bernard on youtube

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