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Tough1sweet1 wrote:

I take offense to your insult to cows.

It was pretty offensive to Panamanians too

Tough1sweet1 wrote:

At least no dead and starving dogs all over.  Trash does not line the roads, and no water/power outages.

I did not see that where I was in Panama. I HAVE seen that in parts of the US.  I do not generalize from that to the entire US experience.  I apologize for having expressed myself too harshly, but those kinds of comments sound very much like "my country does it better than yours".  Which is a recognizable trait in some expats. It is possible to raise warnings to prospective expats based on your experience, but the constant negativity is as misleading as the constant rosiness of others.

Many of us have overpaid for real estate, or faced a sinking market. We adjust and move on.

Tough1sweet1 wrote:

I am not saying everything is great or perfect in the U.S.  but there really is no comparison.  First world vs. third world.  I have also lived in Italy, Germany, Colombia and the U.K.  All were wonderful.   IMHO Panama is a total misery.   Okay, I know someone is going to ask, why did I come here?  Family reasons.  To help.  No good deed goes unpunished.   Former President Martinelli is living the life with one billion dollars of other peoples money, his secretary goes to jail for two years.  Does that give anyone a hint of what goes on here? 

In the United States, the developer who stole over $150,000 from me would not be listed in the Accodeco, [Panamanian version of Better Business Bureau], as an approved developer.  Especially when they don't even show up for meetings with their lawyers.  Actually these developers were ok with Panamanians, they only stole from gringos:  Americans, Canadians, Italians and Russians.  Most people tell me I am lucky just to have 4 walls,!   Roughly 30% of projects here do not finish construction, and those who invested and bought on paper lose all of their money.  That has to be one of the highest rates  anywhere in the world.  Unfortunately I cannot yet name names here, I will have to be outside the country with all my assets until I can do that.  Until then all I can do is tell people the general facts.  And if I save even one person from being hugely ripped off, the aggravation from the haters will be worthwhile.

So true.  It comes down to not having an effective and impartial judicial system, especially for expats.  The development and construction, real estate, and legal "professions" are loaded with dishonest individuals who would rather cheat or ignore a client, cut corners and generally not do as they promise - all with no fear whatsoever of repercussion, especially to expats.  Personally, I have seen real estate agents and lawyers represent both parties to a transaction (without disclosure of course to the expat), contracting to sell property they did not own (again, without disclosure) and even selling the same unit twice.  There truly is NO recourse for the defrauded expat. Period.

Poor customer service begins largely with how (yes, over-generalizing) how Panamanians are wired from a DNA standpoint.  Attention to detail is not there.  Consistency is not there.  Desire to do a good job is not there.  It's not malicious usually, just lack of attention or interest or concern.  With full employment, maybe there's no motivation.  But, one can eat at the same restaurant every day and each day the staff will look through you like you don't exist or bring you a knife and spoon but no fork.  The notion that maybe you'll need a fork to eat just doesn't seem to register.  The next day, you'll get two forks and a spoon.  Weird.

kristc99 wrote:

Maybe it's not entirely the fault of the Panamanians. I've seen gringos march into a place, ask (or demand) what they want in English, immediately get frustrated when they aren't understood, and then give everyone a hard time in a raised voice.

I defer to your far greater experience - no doubt - but for what it's worth I found expats generally to be very courteous in their interaction with locals, whether in a store or restaurant situation.  Just my take. 

What I really found interesting is when I'm with a local, whether at a bank or store or restaurant.  They do not take ANY crap from the waiters or clerks and are very demanding and get stuff moving quickly!  I'd say the locals know the locals better than we do!

dumluk wrote:

Yep, it varies, and at times here in Chiriqui can be very helpful and considerate, even go the extra mile.....But in general, countrywide, I have to agree with the majority of the comments here. Customer service is sorely lacking and substandard........Way better in Colombia or Ecuador........With exceptions, as always, Panama is about as intelligent as that cow in the pasture over there..........and just as likely to be grazing in the middle of the road instead of where they should be..........

Where is Chiriqui do you live?

SawMan wrote:

The rose-colored glasses SunsetSteve is wearing will come off over time and he should be clear and aware in the meantime, especially along the Caribbean side.  A gang of thugs tried to rob me in the middle of the day on the road to Portobelo.  They had thrown a large log across the road and attempted to ambush us when we stopped, one carrying a large machete. (Is there such a thing as a "small" machete?).  Anyway, my passenger and I were not their "target" victim in terms of our size and fitness so things did not go as planned for the thugs.  But, I would never recommend anyone travel alone, even during the day throughout most of Panama any longer, and never at night, especially elderly and women.  The bad guys are always on the lookout for expats.

I'm a single, soon-to-be-retired woman and was thinking about moving to Chiriqui. I would have to travel alone. Have you lived there long? Have conditions deteriorated over time? Your comment makes me hesitant.