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Generally I was in agreement with Expert Spain but I was a bit surprised by the accident figures quoted above and the general suggestion that Spain is a driver's nightmare. We live in the country and, as Expert Spain says, out here driving is a joy. Hardly any traffic at all.

I don't drive on the coast or in the big cities very often but I go to Valencia and or Murcia at least 10 times a year and into Madrid once or twice every couple of years and my impression is that it's traffic - just like traffic in Birmingham or Paris and nothing like the mayhem of Riyadh or Doha so I had a look at the Wikipedia road death figures from 2013 and they don't tie in with Expert's figures.

Road fatalities per 100,000 population for instance is lower in Spain than Ireland, Belgium or France and about the same as Denmark but higher than in the UK. Road deaths per 100,000 vehicles is very similar in the UK and Spain about the same as Norway and less than the Netherlands. So it's a long way from the worst accident record in Europe though it is true that when they had hardly any traffic in the 70s the roads were killing fields. By the way I didn't choose the countries for any particular reason except that they were in Europe and I could remember the figures as I flipped back and forth between screens.

Suspect the article was written c. 2005. Much has changed in respect of statistics since then, for one reason and another. Driving can still be an old-fashioned joy in Spain. Especially on the autovias and (tolled) autopistas.

But be warned that El Tráfico is now effectively an arm of the Tax Office. There is a legion of minor offences for which you can be fined. And speed traps that really are 'traps'. In other words, designed to trick you into speeding, for which you can be fined. Pay close attention to the speed signs and avoid assumptions about what the permitted speed is.

Don,  Fines are only imposed when the law is broken.   

In 30 years driving cars and a 600 cc motorbike in Spain I have incurred one fine, which I am embarrassed to say,   I deserved.

Drink driving is a serious offence in Spain.

If they truly wanted  to catch speeding drivers out it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. The standard of driving here is atrocious in and around the coast and only gets worse when all the Madridistas arrive.

Maybe it would help if they actually informed you of your fines too instead of having to check a website for outstanding fines.

JB Maybe it would help if they actually informed you of your fines too instead of having to check a website for outstanding fines.

When I got my one and only, so far, fine for a minor traffic infringement the notice came through the post.  I paid it immediately and got a 50% discount, I paid 35  euros.

All well and good but it is not always possible for a fine to be sent for one reason or another, well it is but this is Spain so they do as they please anyway.

That is why you can use a website like to find out if you have any outstanding fines and I believe there is a dgt version where you need a digital certificate too but buscamultas is by far the easiest to check.
So it may be worth checking for those worried they may have been caught at some point because you may not even know it.

I have no personal experience of fines not being notified by post, and asking amongst my friends I have not been able to find anyone who has not been notified of a fine.

I have researched on-line why one might not be notified apart from the obvious, i.e.

Where the owner of the vehicle cannot be traced as they have not recorded their     details on the vehicle’s ownership papers,

Where a notification has been sent to the last known address and the letter either has been returned as unknown or it has appeared  to have been ignored.

It would seem the authorities would want the fines paid so unlikely it is an official policy.

If anyone has not been informed of a fine and knows why.   I would be grateful to  hear from them

Thanks

John

Well there is a FAQ part on the website and it goes on to explain some of the reasons and list some court cases where the Spanish judges apparently find this method of notification acceptable.

I'm not saying they don't try to inform you but basically they don't actually have to, it is your responsibility to check.
The only reason I know is I have seen this issue pop up from time to time, I'm guessing though most people who have not been informed are oblivious to it so you may struggle to find someone.

It also may be a good tool to check to see if there are any outstanding fines on the vehicle from a previous owner because as people may or may not know you can be held liable for another persons misconduct.

i did read the FAQ,  and I understood it to say that where other means to contact the subject of a fine had failed, posting it on the web site was acceptable.

As I said, if the subject is not contacted,  there is little chance the fine would be paid, so probably pointless to adopt that MO as the 'normal means' of serving notice of the fine.

Pointless or not it makes no difference to them, we are always chasing up things that have supposedly been sent to us that we never receive. Whether that is the local post offices fault or some government employees inability I don't know but I wouldn't be relying on the famed ruthless efficiency of the system here. In fact I imagine that is partially the reason they have set such a thing up, between people not receiving stuff, gets put in the wrong post box or people just ignoring it this way they can claim you have been informed, somehow.
It could and does end up costing people money, time and sanity.

Well JB I am sorry to hear that you seem to have problems with Spanish officialdom


But with regard to the problem you raised re fines, as l said ‘I understood it to say that where other means to contact the subject of a fine had failed, posting it on the web site was acceptable.’

If you have been a ‘victim’ of that then may i suggest you check to ensure you are recorded correctly in relation to that type of problem.   

I really do not think things are as bad generally as you say

No problems here, I just brought the issue up so people reading know about it because it is not an excuse in Spain to say you are not aware of the rules.
Now people can check their own details and see if they were not aware of it before.

But what isn't as bad as I say?
People don't get notified?
Well they don't sometimes, this is a fact and if they don't then you can't say you are unaware as an excuse because you are supposed to check the website.
Also fact.

Not my fault Spain is a mess.

JB    Interesting point you bring up ,  that people are supposed to check the web site.

I have never heard of such a rule, regulation or law, so would be most grateful if you would point me at the legislation which obliges us to do that,  so that I can check it out and report back,   so we may all be better informed.


Many thanks

John

PS    I will also ask tomorrow when I am working at the National Police Comisaria

There is likely some relevant info here.

JB    Thanks,  but that is where the authorities have tried, but have been unable to contact the subject of the infraction at their registered address.  So if one had moved, and had not notified the authorities, that would be a good place to keep an eye on if they suspected they had committed an infraction.-

It is not I believe an instruction that one is obliged to check the web site as you suggested.

It is the law which says one must check which I would like to look at.

Thanks again

John

[img]IMG_1781.jpg[/img]

We live in  urb La Montanosa in between Hondon de las Nieves and Hondon de las Frailles, nr Aspe, Nr Alicante.   There is very little traffic where we live and very little when we drive into Aspe or into Elche, largest towns nearby.   Roads in our area of Spain are fantastic,  especially the ones over the mountains from Hondon de las Frailles to Albatera.   Even the main motorway which follows the Vinalopo river from Villena to Alicante A32 I think, is deserted most of the time.  I enjoy driving in Spain as it is so uncongested, compared with London and the South of England, where you are always in a traffic jam even outside of commuting times.   

I hope the image I have sent works as it shows how empty the A32 road is.   

Terrylee

Although I now live on the small island of Menorca I have driven a fair bit in Spain as I lived in France just an hour from the Spanish boarder for some 10 years.  I don't find them any better or worse than drivers in the UK and certainly far better than French drivers who a breed unto themselves.  However here is a tendency to tailgate that always makes me feel slightly nervous knowing that if I have to stop, the likelihood is they won't. 

Many of Menorca's roads in the towns are narrow and parking spaces very small.  Consequently all locals are amazingly good at parking and can easily squeeze a four wheel drive vehicle into a space that would have been rejected by a wheelchair.  This also applies to women drivers who would put many visitors to shame.

Of course during the holiday season we have the  added hazard of thousands of Brits driving hired cars and you don't have to wait too long before you meet one coming the wrong way round a roundabout.  It is quite a relief at the end of October when suddenly, like turning off a tap, they are all gone.  The roads are clear for miles and car parks completely empty.

There are some speed cameras but all the locals know where they are.  Fines vary according to the speed recorded, the faster you were going, the higher the fine, but if you pay more or less immediately you get 50% off, which is quite sporting.  The penalty notices come through the post together with a monochrome picture clearly showing that it was you behind the wheel.

There is a tendency for us ex-pats to get 'island-itus'.  It is little more than 50k from Mahon in the south to Ciutadella in the north but don't we grumble when for some reason we are required to drive from one end of the country to the other, a journey that at most will take just 50 minutes.

One thing I would comment on and that's the state of the roads - they are immaculate,unlike the UK.  When I first visited Menorca about 28 years ago it was a different story.  Many of the minor roads were just dirt tracks with enormous potholes you had to skirt around and there was no such thing as a roundabout.  I guess a lot of EU money went into improving the infrastructure - we even witnessed the island's very first roundabout at the exit from the airport.  There was much confusion and the very first night it opened someone was obviously taken by surprise as there were tyre marks straight across the top.  Since then roundabouts have sprung up everywhere and most of the biggest ones have very large sculptures in the middle to prevent further unintended shortcuts.

JB    but "you may be better off looking into using I did not know about the fine" as a defence and see how far that gets you." 

I have not lived in UK for 30 years, but that would not have worked there, either,


"Ignorance of the law is no defence" probably applies almost everywhere.

Not really the same thing.

This fits better.

Hi, traffic in Murcia is very cool, you can go by bike, bus, tram. No rush hour, parking is convenient but i dont know exactly the cost.

I live just outside Cordoba (about 26 clicks away) and I travel in most weekdays to collect my other half from her work, she usually catches the bus in but I collect her as the last bus goes before she finishes work. The public transport is here cheap, reliable and clean although it finishes early every day (2030 hrs) There are two railway lines (AVE and local) that run past our typical Spanish town with its lovely castle, but neither stop because the station was removed some years ago - goodness knows why?

The road to Cordoba is a good one and, apart from the odd crazy motorist, quite a pleasant drive. The traffic develops as you enter the outskirts of Cordoba. Driving in the centre is a hopeless pastime and with such good public transport I wonder why so many people bother to negotiate the traffic and find somewhere to park, a nightmare as in so many Spanish cities.

The open roads around Cordoba are usually clear and kept in good condition, which appears to be the case in most of rural Spain. I arrived at Santandar three years ago from the excellent ferry and drove to Cordoba. The only real traffic I encountered was on the Madrid ring road, otherwise it was plain sailing.

From my experience Trafico are trying hard to cut down on the number of accidents on all road types. They face a daunting task as the Spanish only do two things quickly - Talk and drive.
Having said that I love the laidback lifestyle with friendly people.
While traffic pollution is a real headache in cities in the world, Spain's air quality seems ok and the general environment still feels quite healthy.

Hi, I live close to Granada. Trafic can delay a lot around busy hours. Parking space is hard to find. Luckily I have an electric bike ....Another solution is part of the way with the car, and close to Granada take the bike.

Cheers, Sergio