Education Experts

1POSTS

14 years ago

I've been working in a "preparatory year" program at a university in Riyadh for six months and would like prospective new teachers to know that the only reason for being here is the money.
Edex (as we call it) is a difficult employer.聽 The administration under William Frawley, is reluctant to grant leave, even during school vacations.聽 I arrived at the end of September, but was not allowed to leave the country until four months later, and then only for a week.聽 We are given only single-entry visas and have to pay for renewal ourselves, unless we stay in-country.
The university panders to the students, who, though in their late teens, act more like 12 year-old.聽 Many, if not most of them are not interested in learning English, but only in their attendance being marked, because they are paid for it by the government.聽 If you teach here, be prepared to being ignored, and at times, even defied.聽 In case of a teacher-student conflict, in most cases the teacher will be re-assigned to a different class with no notice or consultation, just on the basis of the student's complaint.聽聽聽聽聽
I came here looking forward to the experience, but my level of disgust is too high for me to remain.

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Alliecat ViP

8790POSTS

14 years ago

kafka wrote:
I've been working in a "preparatory year" program at a university in Riyadh for six months and would like prospective new teachers to know that the only reason for being here is the money.
Edex (as we call it) is a difficult employer.聽 The administration under William Frawley, is reluctant to grant leave, even during school vacations.聽 I arrived at the end of September, but was not allowed to leave the country until four months later, and then only for a week.聽 We are given only single-entry visas and have to pay for renewal ourselves, unless we stay in-country.
The university panders to the students, who, though in their late teens, act more like 12 year-old.聽 Many, if not most of them are not interested in learning English, but only in their attendance being marked, because they are paid for it by the government.聽 If you teach here, be prepared to being ignored, and at times, even defied.聽 In case of a teacher-student conflict, in most cases the teacher will be re-assigned to a different class with no notice or consultation, just on the basis of the student's complaint.聽聽聽聽聽
I came here looking forward to the experience, but my level of disgust is too high for me to remain.

I've heard all this many times before.聽 Eventually even the $$ isn't enough to make people stay.聽 Are you going to 'pull a runner'?

1 member reacted to this post

smurfette Serial expat

218POSTS

14 years ago

Kafka, why didn't you research EdEx and their mismanagement of the programs and teachers before signing up with them?聽 There are a lot of negative posts about them on Dave's ESL Cafe. In fact, comments about EdEx seem to dominate the Saudi forum more than any other recruiting company.

Alliecat ViP

8790POSTS

14 years ago

smurfette wrote:
Kafka, why didn't you research EdEx and their mismanagement of the programs and teachers before signing up with them?聽 There are a lot of negative posts about them on Dave's ESL Cafe. In fact, comments about EdEx seem to dominate the Saudi forum more than any other recruiting company.

Yep, he didn't do his homework.聽 Or else he just thought the writers were disgruntled former employees.聽 I mean, you read about these recruiters/schools, and you shake your head in disbelief and think, 'Oh, it can't really be THAT bad.'聽 The sad reality is that it often times IS (sometimes even worse) .. so beware!

1 member reacted to this post

imraan007 Serial expat

428POSTS

14 years ago

the is like a stuck record, i mean so much abuse from so many companines...just wish that something can be done to help these guys. it's so bad that a few bad apples give a bad reputation to other good instituitions

sangfroid Member

21POSTS

14 years ago

There is no point blaming employees for the failings of the company and/or the various pathetic practices of the 'universities' that Ed Ex send teachers to.

It isn't actually that easy to research before coming out here. I did everything I could to find out as much as possible before coming out here and regarding some of their 'ways of working' there is almost a blanket of silence.

The company and the universities seem to thrive on immaturity and a 'make it up as you go along' basis which leaves teachers not really knowing what might happen from one moment to another.聽 Whimsical organisations with nothing that you might describe as effective and trustworthy leadership. Embarrassing really.

1 member reacted to this post

saimans Guest

0POSTS

14 years ago

@ sangfroid - Logically I agree to you to certain extent. But the real issue is that the logic doesnt work here much. And at the end of the day it is career or the future of the employee which is at stake. So almost 100% base work should be carried out.

Rest everything is not in your hands. If things has to go wrong it will !!

Alliecat ViP

8790POSTS

14 years ago

sangfroid wrote:
There is no point blaming employees for the failings of the company and/or the various pathetic practices of the 'universities' that Ed Ex send teachers to.

It isn't actually that easy to research before coming out here. I did everything I could to find out as much as possible before coming out here and regarding some of their 'ways of working' there is almost a blanket of silence.

The company and the universities seem to thrive on immaturity and a 'make it up as you go along' basis which leaves teachers not really knowing what might happen from one moment to another.聽 Whimsical organisations with nothing that you might describe as effective and trustworthy leadership. Embarrassing really.

I have to disagree about your lack of information statement, since Dave's ESL Cafe teacher forum is an up-to-date source of reliable information and it comes up every time you google 'ESL jobs' and 'Saudi Arabia.'聽 Also, when you see constant, year-round recruitment for a particular place it tells you something (if you're willing to listen).

As for the rest of what you've said, I do agree.聽 It probably won't surprise you to know that it's not just the universities that are 'muffed' up here. Almost all governmental institutions are.聽 Hospitals have the same ineffective, untrustworthy, ambiguous 'leadership' and God help us all, they have people's lives in their hands.

sangfroid Member

21POSTS

14 years ago

I am almost certain that at the time I was looking for info about teaching with Ed Ex, that Dave's ESL page about KSA was not available.

As far as the situation of constant recruitment goes, this wasn't information that I had at the time either.

You live and learn, as the saying goes. Sometimes through bitter experience. So it goes, as K. Vonnegut would say.

Not heartening to hear that a similar set of problems applies to healthcare here, I must add.

Alliecat ViP

8790POSTS

14 years ago

#10

The way I've got it figured, this is a young country, trying to run with the big dogs.聽 They're making mistakes left and right because they don't have the know-how.聽 Hopefully--given time--they will work it all out.

sangfroid Member

21POSTS

14 years ago

#11

Being generous, I would like to agree with your statement.

However, progress will be all the slower if there is a continued effort to eschew responsibility in favour of a lackadaisical nonchalance.

1 member reacted to this post

danicaB New member

4POSTS

14 years ago

#12

Interesting. Thanks for the post.

starofthesea Member

12POSTS

14 years ago

#13

I am considering coming to work for Education Experts, and I've heard a lot of negative comments.聽 I understand that their ESL instructors are issued 90 day Business Visit Visas.聽 Does that mean they don't need an exit visa to get out of the country?聽 If many of them pull a 'runner,' does anyone know if they ever get stopped at the airport?聽 I don't want to come there, find out I don't like the company, and then not be able to leave.聽 Any information on that?

expatsoon2b Active member

25POSTS

14 years ago

#14

In regards to preventative measures for the newbies...should this be specified in your contract- single-entry visas?, renewals, etc?

starofthesea Member

12POSTS

14 years ago

#15

Well, it probably should be specified but it really isn't - and I've read in a lot of posts on the net that Education Experts keeps the ESL instructors on the 90 day Business Visit Visa - which technically, is illegal - but I guess they get away with it.聽 That's why I'm asking.聽
I know you need an exit visa to leave KSA if you have a real Work Visa/Iqama but... if teachers are pulling runners, then they must be getting out of the country without an exit visa, right?

But I don't want to have to guess - I was hoping that someone here might know somebody or something...? And I'm not sure that I want to go to KSA without having any option to leave, if I feel that is in my best interests.

So, does anybody know somebody, or something...?聽 Thanks!

LoopyLou87 Serial expat

526POSTS

14 years ago

#16

Why did you post the same thing in a bunch of threads? Someone will answer when they can help you - they can see when there is a new post on a thread or six now ...

Alliecat ViP

8790POSTS

14 years ago

#17

LoopyLou87 wrote:
Why did you post the same thing in a bunch of threads? Someone will answer when they can help you - they can see when there is a new post on a thread or six now ...

I said the same thing in one of her other six posts lol

rans11215 Member

22POSTS

13 years ago

#18

Hey all. How about posting reputable recruiters to help out some searching souls out here...?

Alliecat ViP

8790POSTS

13 years ago

#19

rans11215 wrote:
Hey all. How about posting reputable recruiters to help out some searching souls out here...?

It's about more than the recruiters.聽 They're just one component.

Go to daveseslcafe.com and read, read, read!

rans11215 Member

22POSTS

13 years ago

#20

Alright, so is Saudi a complete no no..? Or can someone still make it there? I mean with a small family? Me, wife & 2 small ones?
John Lombardo (real nice guy) , contacted me fom Education Experts (edex). Just wondering bout m options.

eveningstar Active member

96POSTS

13 years ago

#21

Please save us from really nice guys! I find salesman are really nice to you also!聽 Many recruiters and others employ native speakers to "hook"聽 other native speakers. It is not always wise to trust people just because they are from your country. It reminds me of time share reps in Spain, they are really nice:)

Evening Star

1 member reacted to this post

sangfroid Member

21POSTS

13 years ago

#22

If you have your passport, there is no need for an 'exit visa' to leave KSA. The 90 day business visas are problematic if you want to leave KSA for a short trip as you won't be allowed in without a new entry visa which you should get in the country you are leaving

Some recruiters insist on keeping your passport once you have been issued with an IQAMA. This is not technically legal but they do it anyway. It's not a problem if you are happy to stay but obviously a practical difficulty should you want to leave without negotiating with your employer.

tjh14 Member

1POSTS

13 years ago

#23

I am not certain if Dave's cafe is the best place to get reliable information about a school. It certainly hasn't been in Asia, where I have worked for a few years. Schools have been absolutely trashed on Dave's where I worked and while not perfect, certainly were not the hell hole managed by Satan himself that was described in the post. You never know if the problems arose from the school or because the teacher was an interminable pain in the ass. It's impossible to consider the source, so the information there is essentially worthless.

1 member reacted to this post

world&action New member

9POSTS

13 years ago

#24

Hi all

I am a music teacher and musical entertainer and I live in the Canary Islands.

Does anyone could help me on some issues?

. - What are the chances of finding work as a music teacher in public or private schools?

What chance of playing music work in hotels or restaurants?

How much live a month: rented house, food and transportation?

Thanks in advance and health for all

Sigfredo

rans11215 Member

22POSTS

13 years ago

#25

Thanks for the health Sigfredo.
Yes, I agree tjh14. Sometimes bitterness can make you say stuff about a possibly great recruiter simply because 'your' experience wasn't all kosher. I heard rave reviews about another recruiter also and ended up being launched for nearly 1000 bucks.
life's what you make it i guess.
Hey all... what can one get i.t.o. living arrangements for +- 35 000 to 45 000 SAR in Saudi?

world&action New member

9POSTS

13 years ago

#26

What this again rans?

There is information that you wrote that I did not understand yet.

A. - Is it possible to contact directly with schools or hotels / restaurants without going through the hiring companies through some contact "impartial" who knows the subject or is necessary to contact the company through contracting?.

2. - What is the name the contracting company, please?

3. - My question again how much it costs to live for 1 month in Dubai with rented house, food and transportation?

Thank you very much again, and health to you what is most important in life

Sigfredo

1 member reacted to this post

Alliecat ViP

8790POSTS

13 years ago

#27

tjh14 wrote:
I am not certain if Dave's cafe is the best place to get reliable information about a school. It certainly hasn't been in Asia, where I have worked for a few years. Schools have been absolutely trashed on Dave's where I worked and while not perfect, certainly were not the hell hole managed by Satan himself that was described in the post. You never know if the problems arose from the school or because the teacher was an interminable pain in the ass. It's impossible to consider the source, so the information there is essentially worthless.

True but if something keeps coming up repeaatedly, it's certainly worth a listen.聽 Plus if you read (read, read!)you will come to recognize who is a regular worthwhile contributor and who is a troll.聽 I think it's better than blindly trusting a recruiter.

rans11215 Member

22POSTS

13 years ago

#28

I hear you Allie... i really get a good feel from Education Experts. One thing is that some people post bad stuff bout them and kinda makes me wonder if i'm stepping into a bad space or stepping upwards. i am searching searching searching... here and there i see some undesirable stuff and also good reports.

Alliecat ViP

8790POSTS

13 years ago

#29

Well, after you do your research, my advice is to go with your gut!聽

And you can always leave during the 3 month probationary period if it's absolutely intolerable (although there may be a fine and you'll probably have to pay your return airfare).

rans11215 Member

22POSTS

13 years ago

#30

nice. how long you been in KSA Allie?

Alliecat ViP

8790POSTS

13 years ago

#31

rans11215 wrote:
nice. how long you been in KSA Allie?

Three years.聽 There's good and bad here.聽 Where you live makes a HUGE difference in how pleasant an experience it is.聽 Also, of course, the work you're doing and your director can make or break you.

smurfette Serial expat

218POSTS

13 years ago

#32

world&action wrote:
Hi all

I am a music teacher and musical entertainer and I live in the Canary Islands.

Does anyone could help me on some issues?

. - What are the chances of finding work as a music teacher in public or private schools?

What chance of playing music work in hotels or restaurants?

How much live a month: rented house, food and transportation?

Thanks in advance and health for all

Sigfredo

Uh, musical entertainment in Saudi hotels and restaurants???聽 And in your more recent post in this thread, you ask about living expenses in Dubai. You're obviously in the wrong country forum, my friend.

eveningstar Active member

96POSTS

13 years ago

#33

"Uh, musical entertainment in Saudi hotels and restaurants???聽聽 You're obviously in the wrong country forum, my friend".

Or he could be in the right country but a little ahead of his time!

Evening Star

UncleBill Member

2POSTS

13 years ago

#34

world&action wrote:
Hi all

I am a music teacher and musical entertainer and I live in the Canary Islands.

Does anyone could help me on some issues?

. - What are the chances of finding work as a music teacher in public or private schools?

What chance of playing music work in hotels or restaurants?

How much live a month: rented house, food and transportation?

Thanks in advance and health for all

Sigfredo

Ain't going to happen!

phillip11 Active member

47POSTS

13 years ago

#35

OK OK Have bean reading everything on the Education Experts...

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE AN UPDATE WITH THEM RECENTLY!!! ANYONE ARRIVED RECENTLY?

BIGGEST QUESTIONS IS ON....

ACCOMMODATION
BEING PAID and
VISA ( the 90 day deal we all seem to get)

ANY HELP WOULD HELP THE NEXT 500 people on their way via them!!

michaelpakenham Serial expat

201POSTS

13 years ago

#36

phillip11 wrote:
OK OK Have bean reading everything on the Education Experts...

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE AN UPDATE WITH THEM RECENTLY!!! ANYONE ARRIVED RECENTLY?

BIGGEST QUESTIONS IS ON....

ACCOMMODATION
BEING PAID and
VISA ( the 90 day deal we all seem to get)

ANY HELP WOULD HELP THE NEXT 500 people on their way via them!!

Are you working for them ? I arrive in September :-)

Alliecat ViP

8790POSTS

13 years ago

#37

phillip11 wrote:
OK OK Have bean reading everything on the Education Experts...

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE AN UPDATE WITH THEM RECENTLY!!! ANYONE ARRIVED RECENTLY?

BIGGEST QUESTIONS IS ON....

ACCOMMODATION
BEING PAID and
VISA ( the 90 day deal we all seem to get)

ANY HELP WOULD HELP THE NEXT 500 people on their way via them!!

Recent update? I would say within the last 30 days is pretty recent--do you think much has changed in a month?

pkmusd Serial expat

827POSTS

13 years ago

#38

Hi Philip
I can asnwer you an VISA for 90 days if thats something your worry is.

Well in KSA, they give you work visa for 90 days and during this time your employer will get you the residents permit here (Iqama). So thats nothing to worry about.

phillip11 Active member

47POSTS

13 years ago

#39

Hey PKmusd.

Ok thanks for clearing that one up. Alliecat there is not much explained by people actually being there, just what they heard happened. But not much on what they experienced... I want those there to tell a little more??

Is it all hear say or real?

Alliecat ViP

8790POSTS

13 years ago

#40

phillip, scout the threads.聽 There are maybe 3 that are pretty active by people who are *here* !!聽 Also, you can check it out on , on the teachers' forum.

For the record, you can say only disgruntled people post but my opinion is that if enough people are saying the exact same thing, it's probably true.

THAT said, however--you should weigh their complaints and determine if *you* can live with these things.聽 If you have a goal, say one year with so-much saved, you can probably tolerate anything knowing you won't be putting up with the BS indefinitely.