Protecting Property From ILLEGAL sale/ Relationship Split.

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

Good Afternoon All,

I just wanted to ask if it is possible for someone your in a relationship with can sell of a Condo I bought in my sole name. PS I have a child with this person. IE can they do it without my knowledge/agreement? I travel to England and am from England. I am worried with the relationship having broke down they will sell the flat and run off with the proceeds. Something which has聽 been causing me immense anxiety as I need to place to reside when here and to have my child around who is still only young but he loves this place. Any advice I would be grateful for.

Is there any measures I could take out to protect the place from being sold off or could I put it into my child's name or into a trust for the child.

Kind Regards

MKP

1 member reacted to this post

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Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

I forgot to mention the place us in Brazil, Aracaju.

abthree Brazil Expert

6446POSTS

5 years ago

If your name is the only one on the "Escritura", the registration of the property on file at the cart贸rio, no one should be able to sell it without your knowledge and consent.

If your ex's name is also on the documents,聽 or if you registered your relationship as a "uni茫o est谩vel" with "comunidade de bens" in a cart贸rio, she may have rights with respect to the property,聽 but she still shouldn't be able to sell it out from under you.

3 members reacted to this post

mberigan Serial expat

385POSTS

5 years ago

I agree with abthree - sort of. That said, I have seen the most incredible things happen in my almost 12 years here in Brazil and I'm not trying to scare you but rather give you appropriate warning. I have seen a marriage go awry and the spouse WITHOUT comunidade de bens sell of the other's properties. While he did get caught and even went to prison she got left with a huge mess. In another case I have watched as a saavy lawyer representing a secondary family (husband had a concubine with kids) suck dry his first family by getting control of "bens" (more than 80%) as well as take 50% of the retirement (which was appropriate).

Having a lawyer is not always an adequate solution. I myself almost goit sucked into legal representation to try to recover my stolen personal move items. A long story but but you know how they say that lawyers can be sharks in the USA? Well, here they can be even better sharks - I do NOT mean to imply that all lawyers here are bad because I do know many excellent people but they are discovered only after meticulous reference checks.

Brazil is tricky. You might want to consider resolving your differences legally and properly before going back to England which might require selling off the condo and splitting the value PLUS setting up child support and maybe even help your future ex find a place withing the resulting means.

I guess my personal cut on this is that you do have a kid here and you do want to make sure that the kid is well taken care of by somebody also in a stable financial situation PLUS you want to be able to remain part of the kid's life.

There are SO MANY other parts to your personal situation that only you can consider but do try to craft a solution that works best for everybody.

4 members reacted to this post

abthree Brazil Expert

6446POSTS

5 years ago

Good points, Matt.聽
I was looking for ways to point out some of the illegal (or at least, extra-legal) ways that things could go pear-shaped, and was drawing a blank.聽 You've summed it up well.

2 members reacted to this post

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

Thank you do much Abthree, its comforting just to air my concerns here and get some advice as I do not really have any friends in here in Brazil.

Thank You

MKP

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

Many Thanks @Mberigan, really really appreciate the advice.

Thank You

MKP

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

Good Morning Abthree,

I wanted to ask a question pleasexrelated to this forum post. I Purchased a condo around Oct 2018. It was handled by a lawyer here in Aracaju. One thing that I am now worried about is did the final step in process get completed. The Registrar a Escritura na matr铆cula do im贸vel. The Lawyer is on holiday, is there anyway I can check some how please. I have the details of the Deed etc in my name

Thanks

MKP

abthree Brazil Expert

6446POSTS

5 years ago

Hi, MKP,

You should have a document entitled, "Certid茫o Narrativa/Inteiro Teor", signed and sealed by the Registro de Im贸veis e Protestos in Aracaju, that details the history of the property,聽 owner by owner,聽 ending with you.聽 The description of your purchase should exactly match the provisions of your "Escritura P煤blica de Compra e Venda", your purchase and sale agreement, which should also be attached.聽

The Certid茫o has a "matricula" number, that carried through to your "Documento de Arrecada莽茫o Municipal", DAM, your registration with the City of Aracaju to pay your property taxes, your IPTU.聽 If you don't have a copy of the Certid茫o in your possession, check the DAM for "Matr铆cula do Registro de Im贸veis".聽 You can use that number to request another copy from the Registro de Im贸veis.

2 members reacted to this post

mberigan Serial expat

385POSTS

5 years ago

#10

abthree - how the heck do you know all of this stuff??!!?? rsrsrs

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

5 years ago

#11

聽 His cup runneth over

1 member reacted to this post

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#12

Hi Abthree,

Thank you so much, I am most grateful. Interestingly the Lawyer in Aracaju responded with the following detail: which I think means he did not attend to the matter when the pur hase was completed?? I am using a translator app which might be confusing me. His response was : " [13/01 : Boa tarde MKP
Vou buscar o documento para pagamento da certid茫o e envio para voc锚.

Ap贸s o pagamento eu solicito no cart贸rio a certid茫o de inteiro teor e te mando.
[13/01, 18:25] Dr Saulo Ismerim: J谩 fiz o pedido do documento para pagamento.

Segunda-feira fale comigo novamente

Does it mean the process was not completed at the time?

Kind Regards

MKP

abthree Brazil Expert

6446POSTS

5 years ago

#13

That's what it looks like.聽 When did you complete the purchase?

abthree Brazil Expert

6446POSTS

5 years ago

#14

mberigan wrote:
abthree - how the heck do you know all of this stuff??!!?? rsrsrs

I'm an OLD Brazil hand ... in every possible sense of that word!聽聽

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#15

The Purchase was completed around November 2018.

Thanks

MKP

abthree Brazil Expert

6446POSTS

5 years ago

#16

Mkp000888 wrote:
The Purchase was completed around November 2018.

Thanks

MKP

In that case, you should have paid IPTU on it in 2019 and 2020.聽 Did you, and is your name on the carn锚 (payment book) or the boleto that you used to pay?

1 member reacted to this post

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#17

Hi Abthree,

2018 I was advised there was no聽 IPTU due for 2018 it had apparently been paid prior to the purchase the lawyer advised this. However I
definately paid the 2019 IPTU it was issued in January 2019 I also paid the IPTU IN 2020 and there was the option of spreading the payments for a small fee which I did. The next bill for IPTU is expected this month.

The IPTU was in my name also.

Thanking You

MKP

abthree Brazil Expert

6446POSTS

5 years ago

#18

Good - that's what should have happened.聽

The seller should have paid the IPTU for 2018, and if the bills are in your name since then, the property is probably registered correctly with the municipal government,聽 and your attorney is just behind on the paperwork.

Keep following up, but keep it as friendly as possible, at least until you have everything in your聽 hands.

2 members reacted to this post

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#19

Thank You Abthree, thanks for all your help and advice. It is massively appreciated and I'm most grateful to you.

Interestingly the 2021 IPTU bill just landed!!

Thank You

MKP

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#20

Hi Abthree,

I am needing to extend my visa, I came on a tourist visa 90 days. I explained to the Customs Agent as Sao Paulo when I arrived that I may need to stay a little longer and reason for myvtrip was to see my 3 year old son.. As I need to help with childcare, my 3 yeal old son. The UK has now banned flights from Brazil.I was due to fly end of Feb 2021. In order to extend my visa would you know what process I need to follow please?聽 Will they take into account that the mother is returning to office and I need to help with looking after the boy.

Kind Regards

PS hope your having a nice weekend.

MKP

abthree Brazil Expert

6446POSTS

5 years ago

#21

The Brazilian Government announced in December that they would not be extending tourist visas during the pandemic.聽 Normally, a UK citizen would be able to extend at the Federal Police office in Aracaju.聽 If the current temporary ban on extensions is lifted before your visa expires, you should be able to extend there.聽

As the father of a Brazilian citizen, you can apply to the Federal Police for residency; that won't require you to live full time in Brazil, but will remain valid as long as you make sure to let less than two years pass between visits.聽 You should look into going that route.

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#22

Thank You Abthree,

Greatly appreciated.

MKP

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#23

Hi Abthree,

Would it better to employ a lawyer to handle the process here in regards to the residency. Does it matter that I will not be working in Brazil and only in my home country? Finally do you know of applying for residency means I loose my Brotish Nationality and Passport?

I was worried if having a dual British/Brazil nationality might impact travel to other foreign destinations. Opposed to a single nationality.

Thank You

MKP

abthree Brazil Expert

6446POSTS

5 years ago

#24

MKP

Unless there's some particular complication about your status, you shouldn't need a lawyer to apply for permanent residency.

Becoming a permanent resident will not confer Brazilian nationality, so it will create no conflict with your British nationality and will not endanger your passport.聽 It will simply allow you to live in Brazil as a resident alien.聽 If at some point you decide to become a Brazilian citizen, any impact on your British citizenship will be entirely determined by UK law; Brazil allows dual citizenship.

With respect to your employment,聽 the less said, the better.聽 Never lie to the Federal Police, but if you can honestly claim to be a remote worker, that should be an acceptable answer.聽 You want to stress your desire to spend as much time as possible with your son.聽 If you create the impression that you'll be living your life in Britain and visiting on holiday,聽 that can lead to a conclusion that you can accomplish your aims on a tourist visa, so there's no point in processing you for residency.

1 member reacted to this post

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#25

Abthree,

Thank you again, truly indebted to you.

Do you have any ex Pat's living in Aracaju that you know by any chance.聽

Thanks Again

MKP

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#26

Bom Dia Abthree,

I am going to struggle to submit an application on my own for residency, primarily due to my lack of Portuguage speaking/written.

Is there any Lawyers you could recommend I use, my 90 day visa is I think now almost at an end. I am extremely stressed at present. I think maybe a lawyer or hiring a representative to help me with the application might alleviate some of the stress.

I do have access to a good translator here in Aracaju mind.

Kind Regards

MKP

rikkichandler Member

12POSTS

5 years ago

#27

My wife is a lawyer and has helped me through this difficult process!

As your 90 days is almost over the first thing you need to do is go to the federal police at the airport and request an extension to your tourist visa.

rikkichandler Member

12POSTS

5 years ago

#28

Ignore my reply I just caught up with the conversation!

abthree Brazil Expert

6446POSTS

5 years ago

#29

Mkp000888 wrote:
Bom Dia Abthree,

I am going to struggle to submit an application on my own for residency, primarily due to my lack of Portuguage speaking/written.

Is there any Lawyers you could recommend I use, my 90 day visa is I think now almost at an end. I am extremely stressed at present. I think maybe a lawyer or hiring a representative to help me with the application might alleviate some of the stress.

I do have access to a good translator here in Aracaju mind.

Kind Regards

MKP

Unfortunately,聽 I don't know any attorneys in Aracaju.聽聽If you like your translator, s/he could be a good source for a referral.

In Brazil,聽 Immigration Law is considered a subset of International Law, and has very few specialists,聽 particularly in a small capital.聽聽My suggestion would be a general practice attorney that you feel comfortable with.聽 A relatively recent graduate is more likely to be up to date in technical knowledge, to have at least some English, and to charge less.聽 Initial, get-to-know you consultations should be free.

2 members reacted to this post

Inubia Serial expat

293POSTS

5 years ago

#30

I found a suave, debonnair advocate in Salvador who speaks pretty good English, if you dont mind his irish accent ....specializes in corporate law, import-export .... name is Max Campos, I'm sure you can find him online .... personally I turned him down though, I was not in an emergency and I found him too expensive for my taste ....you could tell him I sent you ....maxcardosocampos@gmail.com

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#31

Thank You Abthree,

Greatly appreciated, thanks for the advice.

Many Thanks

MKP

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#32

Hi Abthree,

I spoke to a solicitor, a friend of the translator, who mentioned聽 trying the temp visa XI for family reunification. It lasts for 1 year.

Would there be any benefit of one over the other聽 the other being residency?

I am worried my visa is about to expire and want to not be in any breach.

Kind Regards

MKP

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#33

The other thing the solicitor mentioned was a criminal record certificate. I dont know how one gets one of those but I expect I need to be in UK to get one.聽 Have you any idea how one could obtain such a certificate please?

Kind Regards

MKP

abthree Brazil Expert

6446POSTS

5 years ago

#34

MKP,

A VITEM XI is certainly a good idea if you're going to be in Britain, but you need to get it at a Brazilian Consulate.聽 You can only get a visa of any kind outside Brazil.聽 It would allow you to come back to Brazil, and give you a year for the purpose of applying to the Federal Police for Authorization for Permanent Residency -- exactly the process that you're planning on now.

Regardless, you'll need a criminal background check from the British authorities, with an apostille and a Sworn Translation.聽 I'm not familiar with the specific British practices, but the Visa Page of the website for the Brazilian Consulate General closest to your home should show the specific requirements, probably in the area that discusses the VITEM XI.

There are a lot of pros and cons to be weighed that only you can evaluate.聽 Undoubtedly, it would be easier (and probably cheaper) for you to gather the documents you need back in Britain.聽 If you try to do it from here, you'll probably need help from family or friends.聽 On the other hand, with the travel restrictions in place in both countries, and between both countries, there's no way of saying now when you'd be able to return.

If you've only been here 90 days this time, you should be able to get an extension.聽 You're right not to want an overstay on your record:聽 you should take care of that anyway, if only to give yourself more time to make up your mind on next steps.聽 As Rikki said, you might try the airport for faster service.

English Penguin Contributor

123POSTS

5 years ago

#35

Mkp000888 wrote:
The other thing the solicitor mentioned was a criminal record certificate. I dont know how one gets one of those but I expect I need to be in UK to get one.聽 Have you any idea how one could obtain such a certificate please?

Kind Regards

MKP

Alright mate, you're going to need the ACRO most likely. I had to order mine, have it apostilled(?) and then sent via Royal Mail. You don't need to be there to do it, I did everything online.

2 members reacted to this post

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#36

Thank you Abthree,

I have been so stressed but with this forum so grateful for the advice. Cannot thank you all enough.

Thank You

MKP

1 member reacted to this post

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#37

Thank you so much, that is great to know it can be arranged online. As I was stressing.

MKP

1 member reacted to this post

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#38

Dear Abthree,

My ex partner had written to the department regarding extending my 90 day term, according to the UK Gov website any days between 16th March and 3rd November are not counted as days in respect of days counted when calculating how long a visitor has stayed here in brazil ( looking at the 90 day term for a visitor)聽 my ex partner forwarded me a copy of the response she received below:
Now I'm seriously worried:

------ Forwarded message ---------
De: Delegacia de Imigracao Em Sergipe <migracao.se@dpf.gov.br>
Date: qua, 27 de jan de 2021 09:55
Subject: Re: Prorroga莽茫o de visto
To: Julianne Rezende <julianne.dimitri.lucca@gmail.com>

Bom dia.

A prorroga莽茫o s贸 pode ser feita dentro do prazo concedido. Verifiquei que a entrada se deu em 24/10/2021, o que implica em mais de 90 dias de estada.
Portanto, n茫o cabe prorroga莽茫o de prazo. O estrangeiro dever谩 ser notificado a deixar o pa铆s ou se regularizar num prazo de 60 dias ap贸s a notifica莽茫o.
Tendo filho brasileiro, poder谩 solicitar autoriza莽茫o de resid锚ncia por reuni茫o familiar. No endere莽o abaixo ter谩 acesso aos links da lista de documentos, formul谩rio, GRUs e agendamento.

Atenciosamente.

Denis Donald
APF

abthree Brazil Expert

6446POSTS

5 years ago

#39

What was the date of your arrival in Brazil?

The count started up again on November 3, 2020.聽 Here's the actual announcement published by the Pol铆cia Federal in the D铆aro Oficial da Uni茫o:

1 member reacted to this post

Mkp000888 Active member

66POSTS

5 years ago

#40

I arrived Oct 24th 2020.

Davi I spoke to the Foreign Office in London, they stated days between Marxh 16th and November 3rd are definately not counted and the officer should be presented with this information as it is the Official Government Stance. They suggested printing off the page and having it translated for the Aracaju who are not aware of this fact.

Thank You

MKP