Changes in Kitas regulations

doc_bay Active member

50POSTS

11 years ago

Does anyone have any knowledge of Kitas regulation changes for Indonesia?聽 There are rumors on the street that changes are being discussed with the new government that could have drastic impact on lots of current and future Kitas applicants.

Thanks for any insight anyone has.

See also

Visas for Indonesia - Guide
KITAP/KITAS - 12 Replies
Issuance of Visa / Kitas - 1 Reply
KITAS Query by resident - 14 Replies
VITAS & KITAS - 9 Replies
Family KITAS and 鈥榳ork鈥� - 13 Replies
Sponsorship of Parents KITAS - 3 Replies

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

Yes, its correct that there are new regulations but one need to bear in mind that most changes are related to the work permit.

Service, trading and consulting companies will have now more difficulties if they plan to hire a foreigner, Manpower will look at their suitability for the job 鈥� such as age, qualifications and work experience.鈥� Companies are only allowed to hire foreigners as marketing advisor, quality control advisor, research and development advisor, market research advisors, etc.

While those roles are allowed, it鈥檚 not even guaranteed that every application will get granted because Manpower will decide whether the company is required to fill that job with a foreign national or not.

Foreigners in the service, trading and consulting companies are getting the work permit recommendation only for 6 months instead of the previous 1 year.

The same rule applies for companies in other sectors that wish to hire foreign nationals for jobs related to machinery installation and maintenance or whose education is at high school or vocational school level.

That means also that the KITAS will be valid only 6 months and it looks, due to the online system, that KITAS holder need to apply on time and not just 4-6 weeks before work permit/KITAS expire.

There is also the rumor that all foreigners need to pass the Bahasa Indonesia language test

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

The language test looks like it's on the cards.
There seems to be a very negative reaction to ASEAN that's causing jitters in some corners of Indonesia.

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

If its teaching then Degree in English, over 25 years old. 5 years teaching experience and HIV free. Also only from one of indonesias recognised countries that speak English, of which Ireland has been added but not approved.
So if you dont have that then officially you won't get hired. If you are in country and teaching then dont expect a kitas renewal any time soon.

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

Luke, HIV test is for native english teachers applied but why only for them and not for other nationalities?

Or how is it handled with the French or Germans, they have also teachers here.....

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

Tom, I can personally confirm the changes regarding IMTA and their associated KITAS visas as being 6 months valid.聽 In fact, this applies to PT company partner applicants as well, which I find to be a huge blunder.聽 For PMA investment companies this apparently does not apply to the principle foreign investors.聽

We鈥檙e going through all of this now for a long time friend who some months ago purchased a long standing restaurant here in Ubud, Bali (PT company).聽 Even though he has years of prior working experience (work permits and KITAS) in Indonesia as the executive chef at the Banyan Tree Resort on Bintan Island, and the Shangr-La in Surabaya, both the Manpower Office and Immigration are only starting him off with 6 months.

IMHO, this is nuts, as this dumb move is not conducive to attracting foreign investment.

It鈥檚 one thing to tighten up on foreign employees (non investors), but it鈥檚 an entirely different matter to make foreign investment here in Indonesia all that more onerous and difficult.

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

I don't understand the requirement to be HIV free as it is a nonsense rule and was dropped in China as people challenged the morale and human rights issues. And before anyone starts saying it should not be welcome here either, I can't think anyone unlucky enough to be a carrier would want to come here to work anyway.
I guess it is there because the image of teachers in language mills are the historical drunken backpackers who couldn't careless whereas now the western teachers I know and see whilst are settling down with partners and see indonesia as a long term investment.
I have 4 western teachers not including myself and they all have nearly 100% disposable income which is spent in the local community but their time is running out if the kitas process and the strict laws are allowed to remain and not reviewed.
I hope it is sorted out quickly before my options run out as well.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

Luke, don't you think this HIV matter is the result of the fiasco at JIS?聽 I'm not suggesting this as a valid reason, but it does seem sort of quid pro quo doesn't it?

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

Roy, as far as I know you will only be able to still get a 1 year KITAS/IMTA as long you are holding one in the same position/company up to date and is still extendable. Except you are Directcor/President Director ore Chairman of the company you still can obtain a 1 year KITAS/IMTA.

So your friend switched to a new sponsor and if he is not in stated in the AKTE of the company he will only get 6 month work KITAS/IMTA according to the new regulations.

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#10

I suspect also the HIV issue has something to do with JIS but again why is it only for English teachers and not for all ?

There is no logic behind in my point of view they will have to waive it sooner or later or extending the rules by requiring the same to all foreign teachers.

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#11

Roy,

The HIV rule has been around for years but like so so many other rules never enforced. I have had many teachers pass through the doors here and I have only seen 2 medical certificates. But now it seems a necessity.
Interestingly enough my company was already in the process of background checks for all Western and Indonesian staff (teachers to office boys) before the JIS fiasco began and we are still the only ones insisting this to be done. I am now a 'verified employee'. Which sounds nice.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#12

Yup, that's we hear as well Tom.聽聽

My friend though isn't switching KITAS/IMTA sponsorship here in Indonesia as it has actually been several years since he was executive chef at the Shangra-La.聽 He moved down from Beijing where he was head executive chef for Kempinski and making his dream to live in Bali come true.

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#13

Roy, if he has KITAS/IMTA 1/2/3 or 4 which still can be extended for another year than there should not be a problem as long same sponsor and work position for same company,

But I understood he bought his own restaurant but then he could not work for it because he is holding the existing stay/work permits. Even the sponsor may remain the same he will need to get a different respectively new work permit and here is the clue, then Manpower grant him for 6 months automatically KITAS will be valid only 6 months also.

But as mentioned before, if your friend is President Director of this company and mentioned in the AKTE, he should be able to get all for 1 year........that's how I understand about the new regulations.

doc_bay Active member

50POSTS

11 years ago

#14

Thanks for the posts all!聽 Seems like it is just another addition to the long list of things that one must be heavily attached to an agent or other local to maneuver thru the regs!聽 I have my own PMA company and it seems that I am OK for going thru the process since I am named in the ACTA as the President/Director.聽 But what I still am uncertain on is about this language requirement!聽 I find it impossible ( but Indonesia is the land of illogical often) that all the big oil n gas executives or other major companies executives will have to be fluent in Bahasa.聽 Since Bahasa is just one dialect how is it practical to hold everyone to just one language for the country?

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#15

The new Indonesian spoken test is still in process so I wouldn't worry about that just yet.

doc_bay Active member

50POSTS

11 years ago

#16

Thanks for the encouragement! haha聽 Kind of like getting a local driver's license.聽 Pay someone to go get it so probably will start a new industry for locals to go take the "spoke test' for you!聽聽

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#17

In fact the rule was implemented in 2003 already (if I am not wrong) but they never bothered but it seems that this will be become a serious issue now also due to ASEAN, when exactly it kicks off is not really clear as Luke said, the test is still under process but one should be aware of it that it will come sometime this year and don't be surprised if no announcement before hand.

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#18

I am sure there will a work around when it comes into effect, if it comes into effect.

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#19

I believe so also......you just have to add it on top of the fee you have to pay for your KITAS/IMTA聽

doc_bay Active member

50POSTS

11 years ago

#20

I would certainly think so Luke.聽 This would be a BIG issue with some very BIG expat executives and not just English speaking ones.聽 Lots of Asians from outside Indonesia are not fluent by any means.聽 Guess will just have to wait and see and deal with it accordingly!

doc_bay Active member

50POSTS

11 years ago

#21

Just add it to the long list of "unlisted" items that one must pay for the paperwork(s)!

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#22

鈥淪ince Bahasa is just one dialect how is it practical to hold everyone to just one language for the country?鈥�

I beg to differ on that comment as Bahasa Indonesia is hardly 鈥渙ne dialect鈥� rather it is the national language of Indonesia, and spoken throughout the archipelago.聽聽聽

Based on Old Malay, which was the common trade language used throughout SE Asia for hundreds of years, Bahasa Indonesia became the official language of Indonesia when it declared its independence at the end of WWII.聽

Indonesian language proficiency will never become a requirement for a KITAS visa.聽 And, as already noted, this idea has been kicked down the road before鈥lways with the same result鈥hat being its sublime slumber for several more years before it is brought up again.

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#23

Ubudian wrote:
鈥淪ince Bahasa is just one dialect how is it practical to hold everyone to just one language for the country?鈥�

I beg to differ on that comment as Bahasa Indonesia is hardly 鈥渙ne dialect鈥� rather it is the national language of Indonesia, and spoken throughout the archipelago.聽聽聽

Based on Old Malay, which was the common trade language used throughout SE Asia for hundreds of years, Bahasa Indonesia became the official language of Indonesia when it declared its independence at the end of WWII.聽

Indonesian language proficiency will never become a requirement for a KITAS visa.聽 And, as already noted, this idea has been kicked down the road before鈥lways with the same result鈥hat being its sublime slumber for several more years before it is brought up again.

My dear Roy, this time I bet that Government is going ahead......it will be implemented

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#24

Nope...it will never happen.聽 I can just about guarantee it.聽

Reason number one being the Ministry of Education doesn't even have a standardized Bahasa Indonesia proficiency test.聽 I kid you not.

But Tom, if you'd like to send me a PM with a bet proposal, I am totally game.

stumpy Laos Expert

18028POSTS

11 years ago

#25

A wheel barrow of rupiah changing hands聽 ???

doc_bay Active member

50POSTS

11 years ago

#26

Ubudian...I stand corrected on my comment about Bahasa language issues!聽 I must admit I do not have a full grasp of historical matters such as this for Indonesia.聽 But as you pointed at that the MoE doesn't have a standardized Bahasa proficiency test, makes the matter of forcing expats to be proficient is hard to comprehend.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#27

Doc, I'm with you 100%. I think the proposed law is nuts, and moreover I am certain it will never pass.聽

Forcing temporary residents, which is what all KITAS holders are, to learn Indonesian is ridiculous and sooner or later someone will figure that out and once again, this insane proposal will be put to bed.

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#28

Something to read

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#29

I didn鈥檛 notice anything in that article that seemed particularly onerous to me.

Am I missing something?

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#30

Ubudian wrote:
I didn鈥檛 notice anything in that article that seemed particularly onerous to me.

Am I missing something?

Possibly.
If a native English teachers needs to have a degree (English major), five years experience and an AIDS test, not many will qualify, even less if you toss in a requirement to speak Indonesian.
A lot of places such as EF will find themselves very short of native speakers.
Even schools that pay 15 or 20 million will find it hard work to fill positions.
Let's be straight - who the merry hell will learn Indonesian in order to spend one year here as a fairly low paid teacher?
That and, where are you going to find grads with 5 years TESL experience willing to work for not much cash?
I'm sure Luke will be more informative, but I'm guessing many in the language mills are younger people that haven't had five years experience in any job, or even five years since they left uni.

Over to Luke - am I right?

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#31

Thats everything said Fred. The concern is for those that are here already wtih families where the kitas has been stopped or delayed therefore people are working while waiting for kitas renewal. The education industry could end over night of immigration or manpower want to raid schools where they employ expats I guess.
But this lack of movement in processing paperwork is effecting every sector where there are expats working.
As far as I am aware kitas renewal is not happening in Surabaya or very slowly, the whole of Jakarta, tangerang and Bogor for certain classes of individual employees or really very slowly.
Whilst people will decry the working illegal and if get caught serves you right thing, what are people supposed to do when they have been here for years to discover the government has changed or tightened up the rules so much that getting the correct paperwork is almost impossible? Should they just walk away from their obligations?
The new insistence of the rules with previous experience necessary of at least 5 years for terms and conditions which fall far short of South Korea, China or Malaysia will not inspire many people to come and work here. New teachers won't want to come as the requirements are too high, the salary offered to justifiy coming too low and being legal far too uncertain. Exisiting teachers will see out contracts and go and slowly but surely I am seeing and hearing of schools desperately searching or looking to find teachers for international level schools as well as the language schools.
Wall street no longer recruits or advertises expats on billboards as they have all gone. IBT has shrunk and I have heard but can't quantify that some EFs in the country are expat free.
For me,I have to wait and see. Its been a year already since visas stopped being issued and I have technically 4 months left before life gets really hard here for me and my family.

VenzeGirl Member

12POSTS

11 years ago

#32

Is it true that most english teachers in Indonesie have an English major degree? I am always thinking those teachers most have degree in any major??? Will they be kick out?

Also, I read here so many good and positive talking about the new Indonesie president, Mr. Jokowi. But now I see many strange new rules that his government is making.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#33

My interest, apart from the concerns about the welfare of families, is the mess this will make of Indonesia.
Countries that drop English learning always cock up.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#34

I should add, I'm putting the general welfare of Indonesia before that of foreign teachers.
I've grown to love this country, so I want it to be the very best it can be - and that means English speaking Indonesians that can bring wealth to my adopted country.
In more general terms, foreign experts in other fields are commonly a very good thing for Indonesia, so such people should have an easy ride past the paperwork.
I believe Indonesia is making a big mistake here, so should reverse course immediately.

doc_bay Active member

50POSTS

11 years ago

#35

Sure hope so Fred!聽 Reverse course is a smart thing to do but sometimes decisions are made and not really caring what the outcome truly means other than "saving face" to causes that don't benefit the country in the long run.

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#36

Ubudian wrote:
Indonesian language proficiency will never become a requirement for a KITAS visa.聽 And, as already noted, this idea has been kicked down the road before鈥lways with the same result鈥hat being its sublime slumber for several more years before it is brought up again.

Roy, let's see:

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#37

So Tom, do you really think the Manpower office is going to come up with this test?聽 Anything regarding education, testing etc. falls under the Ministry of Education, and as I already said, they haven't even produced a standardized Indonesian language proficiency test for Indonesians.

Smoke and mirrors Tom, that's all this is, and this time brought on by the wake up call and realization of the ASEAN agreement going into effect later this year.聽聽

"Hanif said his ministry was planning to establish some kind of online Indonesian language proficiency test for expat workers."

That鈥檚 hilarious.聽

鈥淗ey Wayan, could you come over here please and sit down at my computer and take this test for me please?鈥�

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#38

I believe they will try to enforce it and make it happen. They seem to do whatever they like regardless of what everyone else thinks and clearly has not idea of what the impact will be for those trying to come here for work.
All this reminds me of ....

Enjoy

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#39

One positive thought.
Those able to work legally will get paid more.
Supply and demand.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#40

"Those able to work legally will get paid more."

Fred, how do you figure that?聽 Or are you referring to some citizens of various ASEAN member countries?

As for expats from western countries, they most likely will salaries going down as a whole new "crop" of qualified workers from ASEAN countries will be able to easily find employment here without the hindrances previously in place.