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@jeanmandredeix

It's a big detour (with, I'd guess, a long/tedious ferry ride)... especially considering that transiting Germany is only 4-5 hours of speedy autobahn. It probably only makes sense if you love Italy and fancy a couple of days sightseeing... or you really want to see Albania. I'm not fond of Germany either, but adding a day to avoid it seems a tad extreme. Just IMHO... and very definitely YMMV. :-)

No. We done the ferry last time and we came back via the Tunnel. Our dog hated the exercise area although cabin was fine so I got no sleep and it was a pain with them searching the car.

We like French roads although not so keen on the tolls.

I haven鈥檛 had brilliant experiences聽 in Germany too. Nothing wrong with the actual accommodation but more to do with the Germans. They aren鈥檛 as friendly as Eastern Europeans.

We want to enjoy the travelling with plenty of breaks for the dog. Haven鈥檛 tried Italian roads so am curious as to what they are like.

I know it鈥檚 a longer route but am hoping it鈥檚 more relaxed.

What about Austrians do you not like them also?. If not try to do the 5 hours straight through German and then stop in Salzburg for a nice break.

No. We done the ferry last time and we came back via the Tunnel. Our dog hated the exercise area although cabin was fine so I got no sleep and it was a pain with them searching the car.
We like French roads although not so keen on the tolls.

I haven鈥檛 had brilliant experiences in Germany too. Nothing wrong with the actual accommodation but more to do with the Germans. They aren鈥檛 as friendly as Eastern Europeans.

We want to enjoy the travelling with plenty of breaks for the dog. Haven鈥檛 tried Italian roads so am curious as to what they are like.

I know it鈥檚 a longer route but am hoping it鈥檚 more relaxed. - @jeanmandredeix

I don't think you can avoid tolls except in Germany, Belgium and Netherlands.聽 I do not advise driving through the Netherlands unless you have a full tank of fuel. Get through there asap.聽 Don't stay overnight.聽 Overpriced and rubbish food.聽 聽Avoid Switzerland.聽 Really expensive road pricing and over enthusiastic border guards.

We've travelled back to Hungary via Italy.聽 We went right down to the South of France, then crossed across Italy and tried to get across Croatia to avoid Slovenia (used to be massive border queues). Croatia is better for through traffic and there's solid motorway to Budapest.聽 聽Northern Italy is a bit of a dump and quite industrial. Nothing to see there - drive faster.聽 We did however get a really nice pizza at a very nice country trattoria near Genoa.聽 聽Last time we drove to Italy which was 2 years ago, we went via Austria because it has good roads.聽

It's all tolls where you need to go.聽 Italy, Croatia, Hungary, it's all toll roads with stickers and cameras.聽 E-vignettes are available.聽 聽Some of these are absolute rip offs as usually it's a few hours transit and they charge for a week.

Germany is your best bet.聽 No speed limits and good roads but avoid the main drag from Koln (Cologne) down to Frankfurt.聽 Take the autobahn to Koblenz.聽 Cross at Passau.聽 There's a petrol station on the Austrian border side but use your phone to look for fuel stops immediately off the main road - considerably cheaper.

@fluffy2560

Thanks that鈥檚 useful. We鈥檝e been to and fro twice now and we aren鈥檛 bothered about tolls, we have tended to skirt Germany on the return journey. We couldn鈥檛 avoid it going as we took Hull to Hook of Holland. Not done the same route twice yet 馃榾

I find it more difficult with our dog as we like to find overnight stays with a decent walk nearby.

I will see what sort of accommodation I can find en route.

@Zooldrool

No idea about Austrians but the timing always needs us to get across Austria as we always stay at a lovely friendly hotel at Gyor.

I don鈥檛 dislike Germans, we both worked for a German company for years but I have always had issues - one decided to charge 50 Euros for our dog. Another queried why we only gave them 4 stars instead of 5 on a review.

@Zooldrool No idea about Austrians but the timing always needs us to get across Austria as we always stay at a lovely friendly hotel at Gyor.I don鈥檛 dislike Germans, we both worked for a German company for years but I have always had issues - one decided to charge 50 Euros for our dog. Another queried why we only gave them 4 stars instead of 5 on a review. - @jeanmandredeix

You could go via Sopron, HU.聽 It's known as the most loyal Hungarian town and is almost completely surrounded by Austria.聽 聽It's heavily forested. There are plenty of hotels and guest houses as there are many people there for rehabilitation (clean air etc).聽 Dunno about dogs - ours stays in a HU dog hotel.

It's now all motorway from Vienna via Eisenstadt to the HU border (Schengen) and Sopron thereafter so a straight drive.聽 The motorway joins the main drag to Budapest a bit further down near Gyor.聽 聽

As with all HU autopalya (motorways),聽 everything goes to Budapest but the Sopron version bypasses quite a bit of the current 60km of roadworks (!!!) after the Hegyeshalom border crossing (from Vienna).聽 It's appallingly badly organised - perhaps 50km/h if lucky.聽 Slows everyone down.聽 Best to travel at the weekend when trucks are (now) restricted (in Hungary) and if Germany is an option.聽 聽

It's been a while since I drove regularly to Belgrade but I would avoid that route as it's not EU and it's appalling for traffic in the summer when the Turkish do their annual migration from Germany.聽 聽There was a time when EU insurance was not valid in SRB.

You can still use some German autobahns for a day by doing a trip to Saarbrucken.聽 You can cross from France into Germany much further down and then pass across to Munich, down to Salzburg and across direct to Vienna.聽 The scenery is quite nice but there can be queueing Salzburg to Munich in different directions.聽 聽There's quite a nice trip cross country to Germany via the Trier region/Pirmasens etc.聽 Very scenic.聽 Bit like Switzerland.

Avoid going via Strasbourg.聽 Motorways don't line up and it's a timewaster.

We don't do the Hull-Rotterdam any more although we have done it many times.聽 It was kind of interesting with little kids as it was like a mini-cruise.聽 We tend to do the Calais route as there's a ferry every hour just about 24x7.聽 Miss one, get the next.聽 We're hardly going to the UK now since Brexit and my parents passed.聽 Mrs Fluffy needs an ETA but I (UK national) and the kids don't (as dual nationals).聽 We just haven't bothered.聽 We'll have to go again probably together as we're expecting someone in the family to pop their cloggs within 1-2 years.

We usually do 600-700km a day alternating drivers - 2h on/2h off.聽 If there's 3 drivers, then same schedule giving everyone 4h rest between sessions.聽 We might go a bit more in summer when conditions are better and the sun is behind you.聽 We always try to stay in interesting places - avoid Stuttgart. It's very hilly.

I really suggest you check the fuel prices off the motorway.聽 A 2 minute drive can save you 10 EUR on a tankful.聽 But a lot of tankstelle (German: filling stations) are automated - cards only.聽 And surprisingly, there are also petrol stations at some Aldis in AT and HU and are generally cheaper.聽 Worth noting.

BTW, e-Vignettes are easy to buy online.

We prefer Eurotunnel as it鈥檚 easier with the dog and suits us.聽

We went back both times via Laon, France.

We were looking to drive down to Briancon then across via Milan and into Slovenia then Hungary and Romania and finally Bulgaria.

We always get the e vignettes just before we leave. Although in France it鈥檚 a bit of a pain as we gave up our Emovis tag when we returned to live in UK.

We use Google Maps to find petrol stations.

We aren鈥檛 going to be in a rush just want the least stressful drive.

Wont be doing the journey until end of March I think as we have dog sitting duties for my daughter and son in law before we can go 馃槀

Austria is a VERY dog-friendly country; they literally go everywhere their owners go, and I'm finding it hard to think of hotels that don't take dogs. They always have a few rooms where dogs are allowed to stay. Landlords can't decline tenants because they have a pet; it's the law. Shopron, it's a great town, it's where Austrians go and have their haircuts and visit the dentist. I go to visit Tesco.

As for a hotel charging 鈧�50, that was probably the hotel's policy to pay for deap cleaning and should have made that clear at the time of booking.

We prefer Eurotunnel as it鈥檚 easier with the dog and suits us.
We went back both times via Laon, France.

We were looking to drive down to Briancon then across via Milan and into Slovenia then Hungary and Romania and finally Bulgaria.

We always get the e vignettes just before we leave. Although in France it鈥檚 a bit of a pain as we gave up our Emovis tag when we returned to live in UK.

We use Google Maps to find petrol stations.

We aren鈥檛 going to be in a rush just want the least stressful drive.

Wont be doing the journey until end of March I think as we have dog sitting duties for my daughter and son in law before we can go 馃槀 - @jeanmandredeix

Personally. I wouldn't go via Slovenia.聽 Last time we tried that (it was a while back),聽 we found they have one of the most expensive vignettes in history.聽 We preferred going to Croatia (still tolls, like peage but probably all e-vignettes now).聽 We would usually go to Trieste, then cross country to join the motorway to Rijeka, then power on up to Zagreb and enter Hungary and pass by Lake Balaton which is highly scenic.聽 It's a good motorway.聽 The Croatian motorway system is really quite good. And the scenery is nice near the coast.聽 聽 However, as I said last time, we went to Genoa and we chose to go via Austria.聽 Better roads and faster but not necessarily cheaper.

The Slovenian motorways force you to go to Ljubljana.聽 It's not a great town.聽 Sure it has its moments but I've been there quite a few times and it's quite dull relatively.聽 Zagreb is not much better but their motorways are empty a lot of the time.聽 And you end in the same place anyway.

@SimCityAT

i have never had a problem finding dog friendly accommodation. My main issue is to avoid driving through Germany. We do try to find accommodation that has good walks nearby. We have stayed at a couple now where they are in a forest. Our Dalmatian cross is not the easiest of dogs which has also made it difficult at our village because of all the loose dogs.

@fluffy2560

I will try the Croatian route as that sounds better. Thanks.

@fluffy2560
I will try the Croatian route as that sounds better. Thanks. - @jeanmandredeix

From the Hungarian border with Croatia, the motorway system is under developed in the direction of Szeged.聽 Some of it is done but it's not all finished yet.聽 聽 聽

From the HU border to Budapest, be aware that weekends can be really busy during holiday periods.聽 Many Budapest people have holiday homes in the Balaton region so the weekends can be heavy on traffic if the weather is good.聽

If you go to Budapest, it's easier for Romania but you could cut across further down and join up with the new motorway direction of Szeged.聽 Now it's pretty much all motorway to Gyula (it's a hot spa town, regional centre and closer to the border).

What happens in Romania, no idea. It's been years since we drove there but I believe they've improved and extended the motorway from the HU border down towards Bucharest.聽 聽That's been forever in the making.聽

@fluffy2560

I don鈥檛 have any problems with Hungary or Romania. A lot of the roadworks have been completed and we don鈥檛 get the problems that we had in July.

The Giurgui bridge needs to be timed well. We usually return on a Sunday but not so easy to time when we are going to Bulgaria.

All I need now is the phone call to hopefully collect our visas so we can book a date 馃榾

@fluffy2560
I don鈥檛 have any problems with Hungary or Romania. A lot of the roadworks have been completed and we don鈥檛 get the problems that we had in July.
The Giurgui bridge needs to be timed well. We usually return on a Sunday but not so easy to time when we are going to Bulgaria.

All I need now is the phone call to hopefully collect our visas so we can book a date 馃榾 - @jeanmandredeix

Really?聽 We were driving Vienna to Budapest maybe a month ago and it was absolutely dreadful.聽 聽Really slow.

As far as I know, there are substantial roadworks on the HU side most of the way to Budapest (M1 motorway) but especially from around 50km (Tatabanya) to Budapest.聽 聽There's always dodgy queueing on the M0 around Budapest (ring road).

Looks like they are widening the road to add a further crawler lane on some of the hilly sections where trucks struggle to get up the inclines.

Well, you can find out more on the HU and AT road web sites plus Google Maps.

@fluffy2560
I don鈥檛 have any problems with Hungary or Romania. A lot of the roadworks have been completed and we don鈥檛 get the problems that we had in July.
The Giurgui bridge needs to be timed well. We usually return on a Sunday but not so easy to time when we are going to Bulgaria.

All I need now is the phone call to hopefully collect our visas so we can book a date 馃榾 - @jeanmandredeix
Really? We were driving Vienna to Budapest maybe a month ago and it was absolutely dreadful. Really slow.

As far as I know, there are substantial roadworks on the HU side most of the way to Budapest (M1 motorway) but especially from around 50km (Tatabanya) to Budapest. There's always dodgy queueing on the M0 around Budapest (ring road).

Looks like they are widening the road to add a further crawler lane on some of the hilly sections where trucks struggle to get up the inclines.

Well, you can find out more on the HU and AT road web sites plus Google Maps. - @fluffy2560

Exactly, as soon as they finish one part, another stretch is worked on. There are always some roadworks happening. More work is planned to connect major motorways from both sides.

@fluffy2560
I don鈥檛 have any problems with Hungary or Romania. A lot of the roadworks have been completed and we don鈥檛 get the problems that we had in July.
The Giurgui bridge needs to be timed well. We usually return on a Sunday but not so easy to time when we are going to Bulgaria.

All I need now is the phone call to hopefully collect our visas so we can book a date 馃榾 - @jeanmandredeix
Really? We were driving Vienna to Budapest maybe a month ago and it was absolutely dreadful. Really slow.

As far as I know, there are substantial roadworks on the HU side most of the way to Budapest (M1 motorway) but especially from around 50km (Tatabanya) to Budapest. There's always dodgy queueing on the M0 around Budapest (ring road).

Looks like they are widening the road to add a further crawler lane on some of the hilly sections where trucks struggle to get up the inclines.

Well, you can find out more on the HU and AT road web sites plus Google Maps. - @fluffy2560
Exactly, as soon as they finish one part, another stretch is worked on. There are always some roadworks happening. More work is planned to connect major motorways from both sides. - @SimCityAT

It's an EU requirement to connect country centres to each other by road.聽 聽 HU built their motorways maybe 20 years ago but now a lot of them are in quite bad condition.聽 I think they bleat they don't have money for repairs.聽 Our vignette charges are far too much.

@fluffy2560

We came back middle of December and had no problems the route we took.

@fluffy2560
We came back middle of December and had no problems the route we took. - @jeanmandredeix

You might not have had problems, but there will always be some road issues happening somewhere.

@SimCityAT

We go via Craiova and sailed through.

@SimCityAT

Always in Germany 馃ぃ馃ぃ for us. Our summer journey was an absolute nightmare in most countries though.

I used to commute between Sofia and London, sometimes daily and at other times weekly. 15 minutes by car/taxi to Sofia airport, 3陆 hour flight, 30 minutes train ride; due to the time difference I'd usually be the first person in the office. No tolls/vignettes/hotels/fuel stops etc. It was quicker than driving from Lincolnshire to London and back, and a lot more restful.

I did the BG to Lincolnshire drive a couple of times, as a passenger, and couldn't understand the attraction.

I used to commute between Sofia and London, sometimes daily and at other times weekly. 15 minutes by car/taxi to Sofia airport, 3陆 hour flight, 30 minutes train ride; due to the time difference I'd usually be the first person in the office. No tolls/vignettes/hotels/fuel stops etc. It was quicker than driving from Lincolnshire to London and back, and a lot more restful.
I did the BG to Lincolnshire drive a couple of times, as a passenger, and couldn't understand the attraction. - @JimJ

You had no dog with you tho Jim?

I used to commute between Sofia and London, sometimes daily and at other times weekly. 15 minutes by car/taxi to Sofia airport, 3陆 hour flight, 30 minutes train ride; due to the time difference I'd usually be the first person in the office. No tolls/vignettes/hotels/fuel stops etc. It was quicker than driving from Lincolnshire to London and back, and a lot more restful.
I did the BG to Lincolnshire drive a couple of times, as a passenger, and couldn't understand the attraction. - @JimJ

We used to make it into a little holiday.聽 聽Stopping at places on the way for the kids.聽 聽That said, we only did it a few times per year. And at that time, no dog.

We had already flown out several times when we were house hunting. Impossible for longer term with a crazy Dalmatian cross 馃槀

The next trip will hopefully be the one where we get to stay.

@SimCityAT

No dog indeed - if we'd had one 'Er Indoors would have been looking after it and would probably have told me not to come back...馃槑

PS I love dogs but if I absolutely had to choose it'd be cats, cats, cats... 馃槏

@JimJ

Hmm, maybe not cats for travel. Dogs tend to cope with car journeys better than cats do (not all, but most).

I'm looking forward to moving to Bulgaria, but not especially looking forward to the road trip there with six cats caged up in the back of the van!

@JimJ Hmm, maybe not cats for travel. Dogs tend to cope with car journeys better than cats do (not all, but most). I'm looking forward to moving to Bulgaria, but not especially looking forward to the road trip there with six cats caged up in the back of the van! - @janemulberry

We took our cat back then (RIP) from Amsterdam, NL to near Vienna, AT.聽 聽

She miaowed and pleaded for freedom the whole way聽 (>9h) but people looking at us in the car found it highly amusing to see the cat wandering around inside the car when we stopped for a rest.聽 Obviously we wouldn't have let her out to roam at a rest stop.聽 She'd have been off in a flash.聽 聽

When we arrived, we kept her in for a few days to settle.聽 She was OK about it in the end and soon found spots to have a quiet snooze and always came back for food.

It can be done easily if one has proper cat boxes and a loud enough music system to drown out the whingeing and whining.

LOL! Yes, we're planning the playlist for the sound system already! It will probably take us five days to do the drive, and I hope we won't have five full days of wailing, though it's possible. We'll also be sure to have a good supply of vet approved calming supplements!

Ideally we'd like to buy an old cheapo mid-sized motorhome with a bedroom at the end that can be closed off. It just needs a valid MOT and be sound enough to make the one trip, then we'll park it up behind the house, drain all the fluids, and it can be hubby's man (and cat!) cave. There's one on ebay hubby is eying, but we don't have anywhere in the UK to park it while I wait for my D visa.

The cats could have the lockable bedroom as "their" space and be allowed out of their cat baskets much of the time. No risk of them running off as long as we make sure no external doors are opened when they're out of the bedroom and windows aren't opened wide enough for an escape artist to slither out.

We will see. It's going to be interesting for sure!

LOL! Yes, we're planning the playlist for the sound system already! It will probably take us five days to do the drive, and I hope we won't have five full days of wailing, though it's possible. We'll also be sure to have a good supply of vet approved calming supplements!Ideally we'd like to buy an old cheapo mid-sized motorhome with a bedroom at the end that can be closed off. It just needs a valid MOT and be sound enough to make the one trip, then we'll park it up behind the house, drain all the fluids, and it can be hubby's man (and cat!) cave. There's one on ebay hubby is eying, but we don't have anywhere in the UK to park it while I wait for my D visa.The cats could have the lockable bedroom as "their" space and be allowed out of their cat baskets much of the time. No risk of them running off as long as we make sure no external doors are opened when they're out of the bedroom and windows aren't opened wide enough for an escape artist to slither out. We will see. It's going to be interesting for sure! - @janemulberry

Sounds like a plan. A complex and expensive one.

Hmmmm......never thought about drugging the puss.聽 聽Good idea!

We've got a current cat and she's utterly unfriendly.聽 She like some kind of psychotic sociopath.聽 Wants love but then gets angry if you give it or give too much.聽 聽I guess we should blame her childhood.聽 聽But could be just cats, just takes what she wants.聽 We exist to serve.聽 Only turns up for food and a warm place to hide (usually asleep under radiators).

The Goldie dog on the other hand will take all she can get.聽 Seems to need constant reinforcement she's part of the pack.聽 She wants to be our friend under any circumstances.

I think that's the difference between many cats and dogs!

It's a complicated and expensive plan, yes. But less complex and no more expensive than trying to fly them there, which would cost more than the type of mobile home we're after and still involve three days of travel for the cats. The other option would be to get then driven there by someone else, caged up all the way.

@janemulberry

"Beam them up, Scottie..." 馃槑

I wish!!!