Working for a UK company remotely in Germany

0POSTS

5 years ago

Hello

I would like to spend the rest of this year living in Germany and continuing to work remotely for my UK employer.聽

I contacted an international payroll company who said i just need to complete an A1 certificate to continue to pay my National insurance to the UK.

My employer says I cannot reside in Germany. I don鈥檛 understand why as I work remotely anyway.

I am willing to assume all costs or consequences.聽 Can anyone think of what the disadvantage is for them?聽 Thanks

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beppi Germany/Singapore Expert

15644POSTS

5 years ago

As a non-EU citizen, you need a visa allowing work and a residence permit.
Also, since you are not employed by a German company (which would deduct taxes and social contributions), you will be classified as self-employed - which is far more complex and probably not woth the buerocratic hazzle if you only plan to stay a few months.
Paying a foreign insurance will definitely not help you in becoming legal in Germany. You will have to join the German health insurance and follow all local regulations!

GuestPoster75 Guest

0POSTS

5 years ago

HI there, I have read the other posts on this and I have even contacted a German payroll company. I have a great job and I am happy to pay the taxes and insurance in Germany.聽 THe payroll company in Germany said I only have to file an A1 certificate and technically if I only stayed 1聽 or 2 years, I would do s sort of self assessment but that the German govt may not even require me to pay the taxes on that side. But even if they did I am happy to pay.聽

My question was more to聽 why would my company care where I am sitting, especially now in the middle of a pandemic.聽 How does it affect them if I am in a flat in UK or a house with a huge garden in Germany. I am trying to figure out what there point of view is so I can offer a solution.

GuestPoster75 Guest

0POSTS

5 years ago

And do i need a visa before December 31 2020 with a UK passport?聽 Can鈥檛 I just rock up and continue working from home (with a German address) ?

beppi Germany/Singapore Expert

15644POSTS

5 years ago

CCFCUK wrote:
HI there, I have read the other posts on this and I have even contacted a German payroll company. I have a great job and I am happy to pay the taxes and insurance in Germany.聽 THe payroll company in Germany said I only have to file an A1 certificate and technically if I only stayed 1聽 or 2 years, I would do s sort of self assessment but that the German govt may not even require me to pay the taxes on that side. But even if they did I am happy to pay.

This is entirely wrong!
There is no formal requirement for a German language (A1 or otherwise) certificate to live or work in Germany - the only exceptions are for a family reunion visa to join a German spouse (A1 required) or for a student visa (B2 to C2, depending on course and university).
And there is no way to escape German income tax and social contributions (especially health insurance, which can be expensive) if you live and work here.
You should ditch that dubious "payroll company" and look for more reliable sources instead!

CCFCUK wrote:
My question was more to聽 why would my company care where I am sitting, especially now in the middle of a pandemic.聽 How does it affect them if I am in a flat in UK or a house with a huge garden in Germany. I am trying to figure out what there point of view is so I can offer a solution.

How can we know what your company wants or needs? Ask them, not us!

beppi Germany/Singapore Expert

15644POSTS

5 years ago

CCFCUK wrote:
And do i need a visa before December 31 2020 with a UK passport?聽 Can鈥檛 I just rock up and continue working from home (with a German address) ?

Sorry, but I do not know the transition rules between the EU and Britain - and I doubt anyone else here does. You better ask the authorities, either on the British side or your nearest German embassy.

GuestPoster75 Guest

0POSTS

5 years ago

My apologies, he A1 certificate I was referring to was the A1/E101 form

(from pwc.com) What is the A1 certificate? The A1 certificate, which also is referred to as the 'certificate of applicable law', confirms that in the case of temporary employment in another EEA State or Switzerland, only the corresponding German regulations apply instead of the social security regulations for that jurisdiction.

Cynic UK/Netherlands Expert

8114POSTS

5 years ago

You need to consider the different Labour Laws in each country; if you work for a UK company, it almost certainly will be under a contract that complies with UK Labour law; the ones that don't are for people like charity workers, there are many that give you rights to things like paid vacation, sick pay, working hours, maternity holiday/pay - I could go on.聽 These rights are not blanket across the EU in terms of whether they exist and what the value is worth.

Things like your company pension scheme will almost certainly benefit from tax breaks in the UK; your company will pay Corporation tax and claim operating cost offsets based on employees resident in the UK; all this only applies if you are resident in the UK.聽 Where you are resident is determined by where you live, not where you work.聽 If you leave the UK with the express intention of living in Germany, then as far as the UK is concerned, you will be considered as being resident in Germany from that date and your UK Employment contract will cease to be valid.

beppi Germany/Singapore Expert

15644POSTS

5 years ago

I had to google this, and found:
The A 1 (formerly E101) form is for people who are sent on temporary engagements (up to 12 months and with a fixed end date) to other countries within the EU. It is issued by the authorities of the employee's origin country. With it, the employee remains in the origin country's social security system and does not need to contribute to the host country's social security system.
It has nothing to do with taxes, and it won't apply to you any more after Brexit.

Kallee09 Member

2POSTS

5 years ago

#10

beppi wrote:
As a non-EU citizen, you need a visa allowing work and a residence permit.
Also, since you are not employed by a German company (which would deduct taxes and social contributions), you will be classified as self-employed - which is far more complex and probably not woth the buerocratic hazzle if you only plan to stay a few months.
Paying a foreign insurance will definitely not help you in becoming legal in Germany. You will have to join the German health insurance and follow all local regulations!

Will you be classified as self-employed in this situation?

beppi Germany/Singapore Expert

15644POSTS

5 years ago

#11

Kallee09: Of course - if you have no employer who can fulfil the obligations of a German employer (like deducting income tax at source, submitting contributions to social security, compulsory insurances and the public retirement fund, plus a number of other responsibilities聽 employers here have towards their employees), the authorities classify you as self-employed and you are responsible for all these (plus business registration, licensing, proper accounting, value-added tax on the turnover and corporate taxes on the profit) all by yourself.

Kallee09 Member

2POSTS

5 years ago

#12

Thank you for your reply. I have just started to read up on this, so I apologize if I am asking questions that have already been answered. But anyway that makes sense though. I have a read a few articles which states that if you are considered self-employed you can opt out of the public pension plan. Do you by any chance know if that is true? Don't really know if I wanted to if I do move to Germany.

Thank you

beppi Germany/Singapore Expert

15644POSTS

5 years ago

#13

Kallee09: Yes, as a self-employed you can opt out of it (and also the unemployment insurance). Whether that makes sense depends on if you have the discipline and resources to save a similar amount on your own (and, in case of job/business loss, survive on savings for many months without income). There are advantages of forced savings and coverage in emergencies!

vagabondrules Member

1POSTS

4 years ago

#14

Since this has been already for quite a while, could you get any solution to this?
I am in a similar situation, and I would like to know if you could succeed.

Freiheit1 New member

3POSTS

4 years ago

#15

Hello everyone, i am facing similar thing in Germany.
I will be starting Ausbildung in Germany from first of October. My previous company asked me to stay on their payslip for next month or two and we will terminate conract in November.

Does anyone know after i terminate contract will i be able to apply for some income help, since Ausbildung will not cover my costs

Thanks in advance.

ALKB Germany Advisor

206POSTS

4 years ago

#16

This is not at all similar to OP's situation.

If you are an EU national, you can apply for benefits to top up your Ausbildungsverg眉tung. Your local Jobcenter can check whether you are meeting all the requirements.

1 member reacted to this post

GuestPoster75 Guest

0POSTS

4 years ago

#17

Hi, I don't know if you have found a solution to this but I am in the same situation and have just started looking into the logistics of moving to Germany whilst continuing to work remotely for a UK company (since my partner is moving for a job in Cologne).

I don't know the ins and outs of how or why but believe it is possible through one of two options - 1. become a contractor for current UK company, you will lose any employment benefits and the German employment law may require you to have more than one 'client' to become self-employed - I'm not sure what your work is - but then you pay your taxes in Germany as a self-employed professional. 2. use an umbrella company in Germany or the EU, they will essentially hire you and charge your current employer for the work you do but you will then have some employment rights through the umbrella company, you will then pay taxes, health care etc through the umbrella company. I believe some umbrella companies will charge via a percentage of your salary before then paying you.

Hope that helps, please let me know if you have any further info and I've only just started looking into this so take my comments with a pinch of salt!

1 member reacted to this post

ALKB Germany Advisor

206POSTS

4 years ago

#18

emhind wrote:
Hi, I don't know if you have found a solution to this but I am in the same situation and have just started looking into the logistics of moving to Germany whilst continuing to work remotely for a UK company (since my partner is moving for a job in Cologne).

I don't know the ins and outs of how or why but believe it is possible through one of two options - 1. become a contractor for current UK company, you will lose any employment benefits and the German employment law may require you to have more than one 'client' to become self-employed - I'm not sure what your work is - but then you pay your taxes in Germany as a self-employed professional. 2. use an umbrella company in Germany or the EU, they will essentially hire you and charge your current employer for the work you do but you will then have some employment rights through the umbrella company, you will then pay taxes, health care etc through the umbrella company. I believe some umbrella companies will charge via a percentage of your salary before then paying you.

Hope that helps, please let me know if you have any further info and I've only just started looking into this so take my comments with a pinch of salt!

When you say partner, do you mean unmarried partner?

In that case you are facing two sets of hurdles:

1. You won't be able to get a dependent visa and will have to qualify in your own right.

2. Qualifying for a visa that allows employment/self-employment.

GuestPoster75 Guest

0POSTS

4 years ago

#19

No, we are not married so yes I'll have to qualify for a visa on my own merit. I have a Bachelors and a Masters degree which are both recognised in Germany and have been looking for jobs in Germany, although my German language is poor (got a few months to learn yet though)!

I'm therefore thinking that a job seekers visa might be the best route for me - my partner is planning to move in February, if I was able to secure a JSV before then I'd have 6 months from February to improve my German language and search for employment.

Does anyone know, if I didn't find employment in those 6 months, could I then search for an umbrella agency to employ me in Germany and the umbrella agency as my 'employer' could charge my current UK company for the work I'm doing? Or is that not recognised as 'employment' from a visa perspective?

beppi Germany/Singapore Expert

15644POSTS

4 years ago

#20

emhind wrote:
Does anyone know, if I didn't find employment in those 6 months, could I then search for an umbrella agency to employ me in Germany and the umbrella agency as my 'employer' could charge my current UK company for the work I'm doing? Or is that not recognised as 'employment' from a visa perspective?

I heard about such arrangements before, but since Brexit (and thus the need for it) is still new, you better ask such an "umbrella" agency (and your employer) how to go about it.