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Have you read that topic? Living in Barcelona

you'll find more topics in the living in Europe forum, such as this one : /forum/viewtopic.php?id=1498

You should definitely talk to Oreneta

I'm buried deep for the next couple of days...hang on and I'll be back.  yankinsweden, I'm working on it too..... sorry folks.  More later.

OK, crime is just not such an issue once you leave the States, honestly...and while there is crime everywhere, most of what goes on here is relativley minor compared to any large American city, and their high schools...that said, crap happens everywhere. 

I don't know the age of your kids, but in Spain, possession of marijuana is legal, so it is very very present...something to consider if that is an issue for you.

Basically, most of the way along the coast in Catalonia you have a nice combination of sea and mountains.  They are really very very near each other....I assume given the sailing that you want to be reasonably near the sea...remember when you discuss temperature that it gets much colder quite quickly as you climb the mountains and move away from the sea...much.  If this is a major consideration for you, then you should consider living right on the coast, or very near it.  Many of the towns on the coast have a larger number of ex-pats, and lower percentage of Catalans, the property is more expensive because many people come for the beach....if you move just a little way in, it is often more like a village, and not QUITE as expensive.  Housing here, to my eye, is ridiculously overpriced, and the UN apparently agrees, calling Spains housing market a disaster waiting to happen.  I would rent first till you decide how you feel about the country, etc etc etc.

Maybe you could make a list, or rather a series of list...1. must have, 2. want to have, 3. would be nice to have and 4. don't care at all...this should help you narrow things down.  You may also want to look into the process of getting work permits, this can take quite a long time, and look for a job.  If your husband's work is in Barcelona or Girona, there will be no point looking too far away from there. 

This part of northern Spain is Catalan, so if you put your children in the local schools, that will be the primary language of instruction, once they get past grade 6, school is in both Catalan and Castillian...if this is a short term move, and you don't want your children to have to try to learn so many langauges, you should consider where the American and British schools are and move near there.....we have our kids in the local schools, but that is a large part of WHY we moved here...my husband is Catalan.  The American schools have a generally good reputation, and there are some local kids...it also makes it easier to meet other ex-pat families, which helps to create a community of sorts.

Lots to consider, the people are lovely and helpful and laid-back, and the food is wonderful, it is a great place to be.  Do you speak any spanish at all?  Starting lessons may be worth doing, and will feed the dream as well.

If you have more questions, I'd be happy to chat again.....

thank you so much! yes, a list is a good idea. we have made our minds up about Spain at this point! my husband has even talked to his mother about it and she's excited too! she frequents France and Switzerland, and has always wanted to move overseas, always reading International Living, etc.. lol.. she'll be retired in a year, so that frees her up!

i do not speak any spanish, except for just a few phrases that probably everyone knows but i definately do want to learn.

it's good to know that the crime isn't as bad as people assume. my husband at first was under the impression that there was terrorism galore and mobs of angry Spaniards rioting in the streets lol  i don't know why, but my friend thought basically the same. strange.

i would most likely enroll my kids in a private catholic school and not an american one. is schooling much different there from here? in order, my kids are ages 8, 6, 4, 2, and the littlest will be 1 in june. are large families common or uncommon there, do you know?

my husband has what most countries call a "critical skill". do you know if this will help us to get there more quickly? we would like to move within a year, year and a half. i have no idea how to start this process! guess that would be the next thing i should look up.. how long can it take to get a work permit?

so, i'm going to go and look up all the req's for moving to Spain now, make my list and study more about the different regions. i thought i'd like Girona, but then i read that there's volcanoes there?? it makes me think twice. i know that there's bound to be natural disasters everywhere, but piping hot lava is another story

anyway, as always any advice or info is appreciated very much! Spain is definately the biggest thing on me and my family's mind right now, even extended family hehe..

thank you so much!

p.s. how long a wait for a work permit w/critical skill? rough estimate? and any more knowledge or personal experience, i'm all ears!

Pot?? really??? the only place i've ever heard about marijuana being legal in is the Netherlands. huh! well, i'll bet their prison system is less inflated then!

was intrigued.. did some research and found this:




ALso.... i've been searching for IT jobs in spain. so it's looking like Catalonia because that seems to be the technological hub of spain... plus my mother in law, who may be coming with us, would LOVE to be near france.. i think it has the most of what we want.

a big BTW... are there "bot flies" in Catalonia? Please say no!

I have heard different versions of the legality of pot...if you have teenagers, what you really need to know is that it is FREELY available, and used fairly openly...as in lots of folks sitting in the park and in their cars...

I really don't know what is common with family size.  In the village we are in, having two kids seems to be the norm...but I doubt there is any sort of stigma about it.

The schools, again, my esperience is thin here, but my general view is...not as clean as in North America, and the extras are not as impressive...the library is not very full, and the school has no gym..but they go to the town sports center which is new an beautiful, and my kids get lots of extra help, they have both art and music which was not available in the public school in Toronto, and computers and all the usual.  Don't expect much from the playground, a - to our eyes- very small very overcrowded space with few toys, although they are very creative in the use of car tires....

The schooling has been in Catalan so that is something to consider with your kids.  You should get a job before you come with that many kids dependent on you...Girona might be lovely.  I am pretty sure that the volcano is fairly dormant, at least I haven't heard otherwise.  The mountains near here are pretty low and old. 

And, what are 'bot flies?'

The Spanish consulate told us the ork permit would take 3 months.  We ended up applying to rescind my husband's Spanish citizenship, he was born here, and it took over two years....it had to go to Madrid countless times yaddah yaddah yaddah, if they can do it right there in the embassy, 3 months may be acurate, if not....?

There is something here called a gestor, they work papers through the system for a living, a bad sign I think, and if things seem slow and your papers are in Madrid, you may want to try and find one to help. 

Start on Spanish now, and a bit of Catalan as a good will gesture, although if your kids homework is in Catalan, you may want to study it more too.  They all say that Castillian is easier though.

There is a new member who is talking about life in Barcelona and is very unhappy about it.  You should probably readher posts too.  She is correct about the problems with low wages for highly qualified people, and the need to fit a lot of people in an apartment to afford it.  The crime here is primarily purse snatching.  She is probably correct that there is a lot of prostitution, porn and drug problems, but it is a big city, with a lot of tourists.....what do you expect.  The crime here that people who are not involved in those activities have to deal with is primarily purse/wallet snatching in the tourist areas, nothing violent.  Nothing like what I have experienced in the States to be honest....and that is in Barcelona.  Outside of it...well, it isn't heaven, nothing is perfect, but I don't think it is too bad.

Wheew, does that speak to what you wrote? 

Ask more if you want...

Hi Guys!

I live in Barcelona, and with all honesty can say I think FXF should seriously reconsider to move to Spain based on your points of what you are looking for. Catalans are not generally a friendly people at all and are well known for being difficult to deal with even within spain. South Spaniards or the tourists are the friendlier bunch.


the rest of the message has been moderated. Please remember the forum rules

Well, clearly there is a difference in opinion around Spain.  I have not lived in Barcelona, we live outside of it, and there is no question that there is a very real problem with pickpockets...but we live outside Barcelona, and the safety concerns are not so extreme...there are locks on the door of course, but people aren't concerned about it and most of the doors in the area are left open, and are often made of thin glass...

The people we have met and dealt with, mostly Catalans, have all been universally and incredibly friendly...my kids get invited over to other peoples houses, and they barely speak the language.  People have helped me out in countless endless ways, and our experience truely could not be more different.  I have found the people here to be warm and welcoming and friendly....absolutely wonderful. 

Clearly BCNexpat, you have had a number of bad experiences, and it is good for everyone to hear both sides so that they can decide what is best for them, but I cannot agree with you on all points as our experience has differed so much.  I also feel that I cannot let this statement go by without comment: "Catalans are not generally a friendly people at all and are well known for being difficult to deal with even within spain" it frankly smacks of racism, and is at best a broad generalisation which is also pretty questionable. 

I also have to question your generalisation about Spain as a whole from your experiences in Barcelona....clearly what you have experienced and seen has been negative, but it doesn not necessarily reflect on the country as a whole, and every city in it.

Such a shame that you have had such a miserable time.

Creneta, the personality of catalan people are well-known and widely commented by spaniards all the time. You can also read it in travel books. The comment of jumping on it as racist was a bit absurd, I think!

Maybe because you are in a small-town which is different than big cities, your experiences sound alien to me and the people I know.

I think your experiences should not be equal to what Barcelona city life is really like. This is not always the case for people that have lived in Barcelona for many, many years and had more time to adjust.

And, what are 'bot flies?'

uuuugh. bot flies.

GRAPHIC. if you hate bugs, which i DO.


thank all you sooooo much for all the info. and of course, i'll have tons of questions! hopefully even more after i finally get there! i think i'll just adore spain.. we'll see!

i've been looking online, but i don't know where to get the paperwork! you can answer this if you want, but hopefully by the time you read this, i'll have found it lol

thanks!

Amy

OH. is it possible to live in Spain, and work in France?

)

FXF, I think that BCNexpat has pointed out some solid issues with moving here, that I had been unaware of, and which you should also consider....we have had significantly different experiences...BCNexpat is in Barcelona, and I am outside of it, so I agree with him or her that you should look into the costs of apartments, how much you have to pay up front, what the neighbourhood will be like at 4am, and 6 am.  There are many many clubs here that open....yes, open at 2am, and go till 6, I wouldn't want to live next door to one. 

That said...while BCN and I differ markedly in our experiences and impressions, I like it here a lot. 

I haven't a clue if you can live here and work in France, it'd make your taxes pretty exciting though...

well we are open to new experiences! if we end up not liking it in spain, maybe we'd eventually flee to Austria.. or France. lol! we have friends in both places that are urging us for at least a visit.. and those were always valid options for us. before we became obsessed with Spain, that is! but we have time to change our minds.. don't think it's gonna happen though! thanks for all the info, you guys. if i run into any stumbling blocks i'll gripe here hehee... as you guys collectively have probably been through them all..

much luck!

Amy

i'd  love to live in spain too.  hey anyone  know  if  i can get a  free  place to stay  from any  euro  gov  if i have no money?
cheers
pt in Orlando

Well, I haven't lived in Barcelona, but my bf does and I lived in Austria. People in Austria are cold and not friendly at the beginning, when they are warm in Spain. They will talk to you all the time, but of course, you have to do an effort too, but that's normal.

The weather is also not comparable. If you live in Austria, then the closest sea is in Croatia. In northern Spain, you have the sun, the sea and the mountains...

But to visit, Austria is a great country.

Tell us how things turn.
Caro.

yes, i would love to visit Austria.. but yeah. they can seem cold, although my friend.. he's one of the biggest-hearted people i've ever met. and he's so meticulous and orderly, and his manners.. like he'd been to a finishing school or something. are they all like that?? not to stereotype, but you know, cultures can be very different from one another, and maybe Austrians are just that way!

we've already said that that will be the first place we vacation to when we move to Europe. unless we decide to learn more about our own country first, which is never a bad idea has anyone been to Montjuic? it looks so nice..

)

Montjuic IS lovely...we have not seen as much of it as I would like, but there are public gardens, the site of the olympics, and some spectacular open public spaces that were built for that event...there is an enormous art museum that is having a spectacular show on right now, but well, it'll be over by then. 

One of the great things about BCN is that kids get into most museums free!!! Up till about 12 or 14 usually.  When you do have to pay it is nominal for most places.  It makes it very possible to go and see all the museums with a gang of kids, and not end up in the poor house. 

The Joan Miro foundation is there, which I have been to twice, and so want to go back again.  Some of his work is simply unbeleivable.  There is also something called an articket.  For 20 Euros, you can go into something like 10 of the museums in the city over the space of 6 months.  I thought initially that it was unlimited entrance during that time, which would have made it the deal of a lifetime, but it is only 1 visit a piece...still an amazing deal.

There is a public school there, which would be very cool to go to, incidentally, one of the houses in Parc Guell is also a public school. Very neat. 

I am hoping to go to Montjuic with the family and just wander around and picnic for several more days and get a feel for more of the place, because there are a ton more museums to see, and the views must be spectacular from some places. 

It has a rather dark recent history though as Franco used it as a prison, and executed many Catalan Nationalists there....I imagine others as well.

It is beautiful, as you wander around you find sculptures and benches and niches and parks scattered here and there.  I love places that open up with more and more pleasant surprises as you wander along.   There is a bus that goes directly to Place Catalunya, in fact there are about 5 bus lines that go up Montjuic....tons of museums and open spaces, and public gardens along with beautiful architecture, and the kids get in free to lots....it's pretty cool.

When the Spanish talk of "Northern Spain", they normally mean the Atlantic coast (from the Basque Country to Galicia), not Catalunya.

Secondly, the negative references to Catalunya from other Spanish should be taken with a pinch of salt. There is a long history of conflict and jealousy within Spain, so it's a bit like the English being badmouthed by the Scots (or vice versa), so not very informative for an outsider.

Barcelona is lovely, as is the Costa Brava, once you get away from the parts which are over-developed. You will find plenty of English spoken in the area, but it will be hard to get a "professional" job with English as your only language.

well actually I agree with betalucky that northern spain is considered basically galicia, asturias cantabria and pais vasco...this is not so known as barcelona but it's really nice too.

As someone was asking about marihuana it's no legal and well it's penalized if u get caught with a large amount or smoking in the street, but it's not as strongly prosecuted as in the US.this doesn't mean you will be offered in every corner, and as in the states or any other country, your children will or won't smoke it as a result of the education given.

For jobs, I guess u could check with sites like monster or

Girona is a lovely city and the thought that volcanoes being a bar to coming here is soooo funny. The nearest volcano is in the Garrotxa region, not that close and the volcano is very very extinct. Most certainly not a smoking gun.

There was a slight earthquake here once in the five years I have been here, but I was asleep and I only knew about it when my wife told me later. The earth didn't move for me.

Girona is a much nicer place to live than Barcelona, but then I am not that keen on big cities.

From your posts it seems that you have some strange notions of what it is actually like here and really the only way you will find out more is by taking a holiday here and getting to know the place.

If you want to know more about Girona and the Costa Brava, just ask, I am happy to help

Girona would be fabulous...there are some great schools there too....

Don't know what the schools are like in Girona, as the people I know they have the kids in the schools in Sta Cristina, Castel d'Aro area where we live.
There is an English speaking school called St, Georges in Girona and some of the Ex Pats send their children to that one. Not cheap though to send the children to a private school though.

For integration purposes though all of the families I know here say that the kids do well in the local schools and get fluent in Catalan and Spanish pretty quick.

If you are thinking of sending your kids to local schools I'd be happy to let you know what we have found out, our kids are in their third year in the local schools.

Girona also has a world class Montessori school.