Think long and hard before moving down here

5POSTS

15 years ago

Do not think that crime is relegated to border towns and Mexico City. This is a small town in Guanajuato relatively untouched by gringos. There are a few here and there because of the Mission Hills facility but none permanent. My step dad is from this town and that is how I came to be here 2 years ago. My mother lives between here and Arizona. Last November my parents hadn't finished building their home yet and were staying with friends. Wealthy friends. My parents are well off themselves. So, the 4 of them sleeping in one house proved too much temptation. They were robbed in a VIOLENT home invasion. Beaten and tied up with duct tape. I am still surprised they are alive because God knows those people had every reason to kill them. This was a local job. Everyone knows who did it. NO ONE has been arrested or ever will be because of incompetent law enforcement. In these small towns where a gringo is something of a novelty these people labor under the delusion that all gringos are rich. That can get you in trouble. Big, serious dangerous trouble that a gringo from the land of law and order is ill equiped to deal with. Living here sounds wonderful if you look at palm tree pictures and listen to the stories of how cheap everything is. All of that is true. There are palm trees and by gringo standards things are cheap. But there is a trade off for everything in this life. It is dirty here. Filthy, with garbage everywhere. You have to lock up everything tight or it WILL be stolen from you. Including the battery out of your car if you leave it on the street at night. Your gringo sensibilities about law and order and even cruelty to animals will be offended on a daily basis. It is chaotic and unorganized and there is no concept of time. Or at least not one that you might be accustomed to. You have to have a strong stomach and constitution to live here. And, by Mexican standards this little town is a slice of heaven. Cleaner and a little more prosperous than most. Small town peple are not immediately accepting or trusting of outsiders. Especially foreigners and especially gringos. It is NOT the Utopia the travel guides will have you believe. The highways are deadly dangerous. Traffic laws are not enforced and you have to be a defensive driver here, watch the other guy or you can get killed easily. If you have an accident do not think that your American travelers insurance policy will help you because it won't. The ambulance may or may not come. It is cash on the barrel. It is not all bad. Life is slower and quieter. People do take time to talk in the street. Many cutsie charming things. BUT be prepared. This is NOT the States. You have to watch out for yourself because your fellow man will not. They have a hard enough time keeping their own heads above water and can be ruthless. Do not come here looking for an easy cheap paradise because it does not exist. Be careful and be prepared financially. It can be fun, it can be a lot of good things. It really can. But watch yourself. And be very careful about who you let know what you have. You may trust your friends and immediate neighbors but you do not know what scumbag cousin is lurking in the shadows hearing just enough about your situation to make them want to pounce. Also, know that kidnapping for fun a profit is not relegated to Mexico City. It happens here. They kidnap each other and some dumb gringo with money who is not paying attention could prove to be too much temptation. Know that they are generally mistrusting of each other, which makes you an even lower man on the totem pole. Stealing and lying are everywhere the the culture of "avoiding" and that no one is responsible for anything (or at least won't admit it if they are) EVER will wear you out. I am certain that most people are inherently good. But desperate people will do desperate things. Mix poor with a general disdain for gringos and a good dose of dumb and you can have yourself a recipe for trouble. The kind of trouble you are likely not prepared to deal with. And do not think the central highlands of Mexico are a tropical paradise. It gets brutally cold here in GTO, also in QRO and Michoacan. IT SNOWS. You will freeze your ass off because there are no furnaces, NONE. There are palm trees but seeing them covered in snow while you are wearing an overcoat in bed is likely not what you signed up for. Believe it. BE CAREFUL.

See also

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Eveningson Active member

28POSTS

15 years ago

Guanajuato Gringa wrote:
Do not think that crime is relegated to border towns and Mexico City. This is a small town in Guanajuato relatively untouched by gringos. There are a few here and there because of the Mission Hills facility but none permanent. My step dad is from this town and that is how I came to be here 2 years ago. My mother lives between here and Arizona. Last November my parents hadn't finished building their home yet and were staying with friends. Wealthy friends. My parents are well off themselves. So, the 4 of them sleeping in one house proved too much temptation. They were robbed in a VIOLENT home invasion. Beaten and tied up with duct tape. I am still surprised they are alive because God knows those people had every reason to kill them. This was a local job. Everyone knows who did it. NO ONE has been arrested or ever will be because of incompetent law enforcement. In these small towns where a gringo is something of a novelty these people labor under the delusion that all gringos are rich. That can get you in trouble. Big, serious dangerous trouble that a gringo from the land of law and order is ill equiped to deal with. Living here sounds wonderful if you look at palm tree pictures and listen to the stories of how cheap everything is. All of that is true. There are palm trees and by gringo standards things are cheap. But there is a trade off for everything in this life. It is dirty here. Filthy, with garbage everywhere. You have to lock up everything tight or it WILL be stolen from you. Including the battery out of your car if you leave it on the street at night. Your gringo sensibilities about law and order and even cruelty to animals will be offended on a daily basis. It is chaotic and unorganized and there is no concept of time. Or at least not one that you might be accustomed to. You have to have a strong stomach and constitution to live here. And, by Mexican standards this little town is a slice of heaven. Cleaner and a little more prosperous than most. Small town peple are not immediately accepting or trusting of outsiders. Especially foreigners and especially gringos. It is NOT the Utopia the travel guides will have you believe. The highways are deadly dangerous. Traffic laws are not enforced and you have to be a defensive driver here, watch the other guy or you can get killed easily. If you have an accident do not think that your American travelers insurance policy will help you because it won't. The ambulance may or may not come. It is cash on the barrel. It is not all bad. Life is slower and quieter. People do take time to talk in the street. Many cutsie charming things. BUT be prepared. This is NOT the States. You have to watch out for yourself because your fellow man will not. They have a hard enough time keeping their own heads above water and can be ruthless. Do not come here looking for an easy cheap paradise because it does not exist. Be careful and be prepared financially. It can be fun, it can be a lot of good things. It really can. But watch yourself. And be very careful about who you let know what you have. You may trust your friends and immediate neighbors but you do not know what scumbag cousin is lurking in the shadows hearing just enough about your situation to make them want to pounce. Also, know that kidnapping for fun a profit is not relegated to Mexico City. It happens here. They kidnap each other and some dumb gringo with money who is not paying attention could prove to be too much temptation. Know that they are generally mistrusting of each other, which makes you an even lower man on the totem pole. Stealing and lying are everywhere the the culture of "avoiding" and that no one is responsible for anything (or at least won't admit it if they are) EVER will wear you out. I am certain that most people are inherently good. But desperate people will do desperate things. Mix poor with a general disdain for gringos and a good dose of dumb and you can have yourself a recipe for trouble. The kind of trouble you are likely not prepared to deal with. And do not think the central highlands of Mexico are a tropical paradise. It gets brutally cold here in GTO, also in QRO and Michoacan. IT SNOWS. You will freeze your ass off because there are no furnaces, NONE. There are palm trees but seeing them covered in snow while you are wearing an overcoat in bed is likely not what you signed up for. Believe it. BE CAREFUL.

Sorry to hear about what happened.聽 Home invasion is my greatest single fear.

Yeah.聽 I have to agree with most of what you say.聽 I live in Morelia and while it got 30 degrees in the daytime,it gets very very cold at night.聽 I had to turn on a heater I had to scramble to buy at Costco.聽

We have a papermill here in Morelia and for some reason, at night, the smell gets really bad.聽 I do believe that times are getting harder.聽 Maybe it is me getting a little bit older, but the narco business has put a chill over everything.聽 A sense of joy is lost and I get very nervous and hate to go out at night since I do not trust the cabbies.

I am making plans to leave and have been looking at south east asia.聽 Troubles there too so I will have to take care.

Guanajuato Gringa New member

5POSTS

15 years ago

Sorry to hear you are also uncomfortable here. I have, sadly, heard some very disturbing things about Morelia. Crime wise that is.
I do not believe that the crime and violence in my immediate orbit are narco related. This is poverty and dumbness driven. The delusion that all gringos are loaded with cash is prevalent and plants bad ideas into the minds of dumb people.
Poverty is everywhere as you know and poverty rarely generates anything good. They steal. They will rob you blind if given the chance.
I like it here. Really I do. I think on balance it is a simpler life. And as such better, for me at least. But, as I stated, there is a tradeoff for everything in this life. Aside from the crime problems it is the garbage that makes me absolutely insane.
The drug dealers aren't doing anyone any favors. But I think the first group to point blame at is the incompetent and corrupt government and police.
Which, if you take that to its logical conclusion means the people are to blame because they voted for them and allow the corruption and incompetence to continue. They all complain about it but do exactly NOTHING to change it. Asi es, I hear that over and over and over. Well, if that is how it is then you don't get to complain if you are not going to do something about it in the next election. And on and on and on into infinity...
I don't know what it will take to fix what ails this country. I do not purport to have the answers. But, I do know that whatever has to happen will likely not happen in my lifetime. It is just too huge.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do. And do be careful of the cabbies in Morelia. I have heard 2 scary stories about exactly that...

marka Member

1POSTS

15 years ago

Stuck for fifteen years in militarily occupied Okinawa, after 9 successful expat experiences.聽 Advising Eveningson to do extensive research on SouthEast Asia.聽 Like most of the "civilized" world, it is no longer what it used to be.

I've researched extensively Laos, Cambodia, South Korea, and Vietnam.聽 Also, been to Thailand and Taiwan.聽 Unless You are VERY rich, all of these, mentioned, countries have changed drastically for the worse.

Don't even consider Japan, as beneath the veneer of a developed country lies Nambibia (or worse).

China is worth consideration, but be aware that Your everymove will be monitored in one manner or another.

This part of the world, thanks to uncle sam is crumbling at an incredible pace.

Sincerely,

mark

Eveningson Active member

28POSTS

15 years ago

where do you think in china mark....

todos larry Member

18POSTS

15 years ago

When i read this i'm not sure if you really want more gringos to stay home and stop adding to the population here or you are that afraid.
Watch the news for any American city on any night , it's all robberies, murders, home invasions, etc.
It's all taken in perspective. If you live near the border watch out and yes it can happen anywhere but so can my ranch get robbed in Oregon.
I live in Tulum and we feel very safe but we practice common sense tactics too, we don't flash money or jewelry and remmeber we live in their country but its become my adoptive home now for good.

gringosinparadise.com.mx for articles on safety and living in Mexico.

Larry

etira New member

7POSTS

15 years ago

Hello,
While I agree with some of the things Gto Gringa wrote, I also agree with todos larry that it's all taken in perspective and to practice common sense tactics.聽 I live in Puerto Escondido, Oaxaca, and I invite anyone interested to come here where it is relatively safe, the people are friendly and accepting, the weather is not cold and there are lots of palm trees.聽 I forgot my coin purse at a little store here and went back to find it in safekeeping with the owner.聽 I am so glad that it is definitely a different picture here than what Gto Gringa paints.聽 I hope it improves for you, Gto Gringa.聽 Blessings.

awk01 New member

4POSTS

15 years ago

just like in every other country, you have to take care but you'll find lots of great things. i lived in the states for a while, also in venezuela and argentina. there's good and bad everywhere. in mexico, it is cold, but not ohio cold. and places like la paz, nayarit and oaxaca have real nice weather.

dgringo Member

3POSTS

15 years ago

Well, I live in Leon, GTO and it has never snowed, the nights get a little chilly but it never is unbearably cold or hot. I have been here 6 years and have had no problems. The people are generally warm and friendly. Is it paradise? NO but it certainly isn't hell. The past two years I have felt a change in the level of security here, but the economy has been down and the drug violence occasionally visits. I feel safe and comfortable but I am always aware of my surroundings. The police here in Leon, are professional and are numerous. I have never been asked for or paid a bribe (except in the DF) Like any large city there are certainly areas to avoid.

JaneQDoe New member

6POSTS

15 years ago

#10

First, my heart goes out to the victims of that awful crime. What a horrible experience.

Currently, I live in Arizona, and recently there was a major crime that has left six people dead, including a federal judge. Other (but less notorious) crime stories in this state are featured daily in the local news.

Not too long ago, there was an article in one of the major U.S. news magazines which stated that the crime rate in Washington DC is higher than Mexico City. It's probably not the perception that most Americans have, but that's what the statistics indicate.

Outside of statistics and perception, personal experience has a bearing on our views of safety, as Guanajuato Gringa's awful story illustrates. There are plenty of reports on the internet about tourist crime and safety concerns in Mexico. Just recently, a Canadian was shot in Mazatlan. Amazingly, he later commented that he felt safe in Mexico.

I guess my conclusion is: make the best educated decision you can, adjust to your circumstances, and live with your decisions you make. Unfortunately, there are no guarantees of anything in life

manos New member

7POSTS

15 years ago

#11

gringa, i feel for you...as an american married to a local....we raised our kids in the states and started spending months here after they we out of the nest...for me, there has until now always been a bit of a sugar glaze over my eyes about life in mex...and life in a lovely smallish village...it has taken me 23 years to accept that i can trust almost no one, that i am a target, and that these are things that drove my husband to run away from this place his entire life.聽 I have accepted that the violence and dangers will only increase in the next 5-10 years and the dream house we built is now a liability...that the stress involved in everything, from bribing for basic services, to crooked cops, to jealous vicious neighbors and sometimes family members...well, the warmth is just not worth it anymore...i am still in love with humanity, and find countless moments where being here brings us closer to our shared hearts...the humble, kind person offsets the crazy mean ones...but as i get older, i can't imagine living in the tough areas of chicago like i did when i was young...i always felt so safe in our village, in part because there are much wealthier locals, with much flashier homes..but lately hearing about armed robberies even here, and daytime robberies...suddenly grateful our road is really bad, you can't race out of our neighborhood...but still, how long before someone wonders what we have inside this house?聽 once you look under a rock, and see what is there, you can't pretend you don't know...it makes me so sad, the fantasy of living here for the next 20 years of our life is over....the reality is just too toxic...and i am talking about a relatively safe area, some gangs moving in, but violence so far is political or drug related...with the global downturn, and the tough immigration in the us...even the villages are filling up with disgruntled youth, with no options and frustrations are boiling under the surface...i am so sad...but my eyes are now open and we are figuring out our exit strategy...heartbroken

swsl Member

19POSTS

15 years ago

#12

Yep, I agree in general with what's been said.聽 Even in the tourist zones, it's not like you think when you just spend a few months there.聽 It's taken me 20 years and now being married locally to understand how things really work around here.聽 The most amazing thing is how there is no law, no protection of the good honest people from the bad. To the contrary, the bad are in charge in almost every level.聽

So yes, good advice.聽 Mexico, more than ever, is not for the faint of heart.聽 There are bubbles of innocence still to be found, but in general, it's a fantasy bubble that gets burst as the years go on.聽聽

The best thing to be in Mexico is a seasonal renter with no land, no home, no business.聽 Stay quick on your feet and get out, move around periodically for perspective.聽 Avoid real involvment with the local life if you want to maintain the feeling of living in paradise !聽 It's possible, though, in the right places.

manos New member

7POSTS

15 years ago

#13

yes...there are some sweet pockets...but the advice of renting, owning nothing and moving around all strike me as common sense in relation to what is developing in my community here...and again, i love mx...i love most of the people...and i feel kind of guilty to begin the process of leaving...not everyone can...but even once we get out...we will return for short visits supporting our community here with our tourist dollars...and i still heartily recommend mex if you are traveling to a cultural touism area...you will have a great time and be well treated...be well all...