Divorce ( Permanent Visa & Permanent Residence)

0POSTS

6 years ago

Hi everyone
good afternoon's
I have one friend, who is not part of this forum. He was married to Brasilian lady. He got his permanent residence on marriage basis. Only 4 days was left to complete 5 years of marriage, they divorced. His wife taken his CIE card. After she told she had lost it, along with his debit card. He gone back to his home country. But without his CIE Card. At departure, he told about this matter to agent from Federal Police. They told him to make online report for loss of CIE Card. Also put exit stamp on his new passport, with duration of two years. They told him as you are permanent residence, also have stamp by Federal Police as permanent residence. You can come back within two years. Divorce not end your right of permanent residence. But immigeration at home country not let him board flight. Insisting on original CIE card. He only had online police report, along with photo copy of CIE. He also showed e mail from embassy, that he can travel back, as already holding permanent visa, but nothing work in his favour. After contacting embassy. Counselor told him to聽聽apply for visit visa. Which he did already. Now question is if embassy will issue him tourist visa to enter Brasil? Or there is possibility of denying visa to permanent residence holder?聽 What is the solution for his problem.
Thanks to all. I hope with your help. I will able to clarify him about his situation, also what step he needs to take in future.

See also

Work permits for Brazil - Guide
Divorce/Permanent Residency - 30 Replies
Keeping my permanent residency after divorce - 5 Replies
Ways for temporary residence to lead to permanent? - 2 Replies
Divorce and Permanent Visa - 9 Replies
Extension of Permanent Residence Visa. - 7 Replies
Will Divorce (Longterm Marriage) Cancel My Permanent Residence Visa? - 5 Replies

GuestPoster367 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

Hi!
According to the practical information I had from Policia Federal is:
They cancel the permanent residency if they know that the divorce was affirmed. (averbacao de divorcio).

I know a very close friend who got denied his entry to Brazil by federal police because he had already divorced, his status of permanent visa was already cancelled in the system of Policia Federal.
This person was entering to Brazil to continue his Postgraduate studies, as he had a full scholarship. He went to his home country just to visit the family. He did not know that his Permanent RNE was cancelled, while he was handling RNE card in his hand. At immigration, Policia Federal collected his RNE and denied the entry.

The Policia federal came to know that he was a legitimate student, they denied his entry and asked him to come to Brazil based on a student visa to study. This person showed me his entry refusal letter as well as Permanent RNE cancellation letter issued by Police.

Now, I know that Permanent visa can be cancelled upon registered divorce. If you are already in Brazil, don't go anywhere without regularizing your status, otherwise, you can get in trouble.

I hope this helps you.

Thanks

jland912 Serial expat

884POSTS

6 years ago

Unless something has recently changed your information is incorrect. Divorce does not cancel a permanent residency.

Jim

Robert60 Member

21POSTS

6 years ago

I am divorced here in the U.S. but still not in brasil and this issue has passed my mind. I am 59 and my Visa is INDETERMINADA meaning it doesn't expire and I would assume if I were to get my divorce registered in Brazil I would not be affected adversely.聽 I should would hate to shoot myself in the foot loosing my permanent status

abthree Brazil Expert

6415POSTS

6 years ago

After the 2017 reform, the Law of Migration is disturbingly ambiguous about what happens if a resident foreigner loses the original justification of her/his status.聽 On the one hand, it doesn't explicitly say that loss of residency is automatic; on the other, it does say that the Federal Police can open an examination of anyone's status on the basis of a complaint to them.
Robert60, in your situation, I'd discuss things with a Brazilian attorney before I recorded my divorce in Brazil, and follow that person's advice, always being aware that your ex could preempt any action on your part by registering the divorce on their own.

GuestPoster367 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

Hi good morning. I agree with you.

GuestPoster367 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

I agree with you jland.

GuestPoster367 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

Hi!

Thanks for the information. Let us hope that you are correct. As I mentioned above, the person, sent me the details and documentation given to him at the airport during entry refusal.
The person is in his country of origin, applied again for a student visa and waiting for the results. He is a postgrad fully funded student at USP. I am concerned about what type of visa are they going to issue, whether student or the permanent visa is going to re-stabilize. While his RNE number of Permanent visa has been used everywhere from banks to the ministry of labor, as he worked registered in the past.
What do you think? Can Permanent residency be re-stabilize in this situation?

聽聽 Thanks, Best Wishes

sergiobotinha Active member

42POSTS

6 years ago

The loss of residency is not automatic (because there is no linkage of systems, there is no such linkage between the notaries/cartorios and the federal police), but the loss of the basis condition of the visa is a potential problem. In my legal practice, I have never seen the visa being automatically cancelled, but I saw it being cancelled by the foreigner stating, spontaneously at the Federal police, that he/she has gotten divorced.

GuestPoster367 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#10

Thanks for the information, Sergiobotinha!
Yup, I understand that someone has either reported or submitted the divorce documents in the federal police, that is why the visa has been canceled. But the strange thing is that the PF didn't want to know, what the person was doing. He was fully funded for his postgrad and now he is in the middle of his program. If the PF had notified him, at least he would have changed his status being in Brazil.

GuestPoster367 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#11

Hi. I think he will get student visa. It will allow him to enter Brazilian territory. Never happen this before, what you are saying. Many people divorced. But her x don't have any right to cancel his permanent status. Only if he is out of the country for two years. Than he will loose his permanent residence. Lets hope he is issued visa.

GuestPoster367 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#12

One thing more, even by reporting in Federal Police about Divorce. PF don't cancel permanent visa, or permanent residence. It's your legal right. What this means if some one marriage not go forward, he will loose every thing. If cancelled too, it's against law. It will be undone in court of law.

GuestPoster367 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#13

I understan the that, but I am not sure, whether it can be undone.

GuestPoster367 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#14

One more thing may have caused problem is that he entered in Brazil first time on a permanent visa based on marriage. He had no other Brazilian visa on his passport. As marriage has gone permanent residency may have gone.

I am quite curious to know, what happens when RNE number will be changed (from permanent to temporary), will he need to change this RNE number everywhere, I mean in banks, to withdraw his FGTS (as he worked in the past), in Ministerio de Trabalho, Health Cards, etc. All governmental and non-governmental agencies etc.

Badol919 Active member

59POSTS

6 years ago

#15

i dont understand why diffrent openion about cancelling permanent resieency due to divorce or wife complain. can not somebody ask about that to lawyear or policia federal to know? then this confusion will gone.

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

#16

Mostly as to length of marriage. If short and the Brazilian citizen of the marriage notifies PF, the PF may look into the marriage and the non-citizen's CRNM.
There has been many "marriage of convenience", just to get a PR to live in Brazil. A CRNM can be voided at any time if there is an issue. (see my note of such when I was with an agent while answering such.)
Sure, it is wise to seek a good immigration attorney (we always are giving experiences not legal advice) Going to PF could have the records checked after answering all their questions, but you will know the answer, but not what will happen later. (Recommend a supervisor level to talk. Some front desk agents may not have experience in marriage matters)
PS CRNM is correct. Same as RNM, RNE. Law changed in 2017 made the name change.

abthree Brazil Expert

6415POSTS

6 years ago

#17

Badol919 wrote:
i dont understand why diffrent openion about cancelling permanent resieency due to divorce or wife complain. can not somebody ask about that to lawyear or policia federal to know? then this confusion will gone.

The law is ambiguous on the subject.聽 The policy, however, is not:聽 a marriage of convenience violates the intent of the law,聽 and is grounds for voiding the CRNM, at the discretion of the Pol铆cia Federal.聽 In these cases, the Brazilian partner's version is often believed.
We generally suggest consulting an attorney in principle; a qualified attorney can be difficult to find, however,聽 and can be expensive.

jc1234 Active member

80POSTS

6 years ago

#18

I have my RNE and living in US, if my ex registered divorce with the Brazil consulate in the US and catario in Brazil will my RNE will be canceled?

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

#19

All depends.
Any children?
How long have you been out of Brazil?
What she states as reason for divorce.
Does CRNM (RNE) have an expiration date or conditions?
Many factors.
If you are not living in BR it does increase the chance on cancellation.

abthree Brazil Expert

6415POSTS

6 years ago

#20

The Pol铆cia Federal does not ordinarily initiate an investigation to determine whether the original justification of a CRNM has changed, but they reserve the right to do so, particularly if they receive a complaint.聽聽So staying on good terms with your ex is helpful, and may be essential.

Texanbrazil's questions are especially relevant.聽聽If your CRNM has an expiration date and you live outside Brazil, renewing it at that time may be impossible; if you and your ex had children that you are now supporting, that could provide an alternate basis for permanent residency.

jc1234 Active member

80POSTS

6 years ago

#21

My card expires in 10 years. No children, irreconcilable differences. I do not know if the RNE has conditions. But I was thinking how if a person gets a green card in the US, they do not lose the green card if there is a divorce.

A visa agency in Brazil said since the RNE is a marriage based it is canceled if divorced. I would ask an immigration attorney there if I knew who to ask?

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

#22

Unless it has changed, a green card based on marriage can be canceled in US.
Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) provides for you to become a lawful permanent resident on a conditional basis, based on marriage.
If she became an US citizen, no it will not be cancelled.
Did you marry and divorce in the US

As to RNE, did you list residence as her home? Do you have a BR residence? If you moved, did you update such with the PF.
Basically same in US. Does she have residence? Did she advise INS of change?

abthree Brazil Expert

6415POSTS

6 years ago

#23

As I stated above, the Pol铆cia Federal ordinarily won't act to revoke a CRNM on the basis of a divorce decree being filed at a cart贸rio, absent a complaint from the Brazilian spouse, so the visa agency in inaccurate to the extent that they may have implied that cancellation is automatic.聽

Most CRNMs for foreigners under 60 years of age have expiration dates and need to be renewed; since the basis of yours no longer exists, renewal is unlikely.聽 In principle, CRNMs are granted to foreigners with a tie to a Brazilian entity, either a person or a business, as a benefit to the Brazilian party.聽 With no Brazilian beneficiary, a CRNM will be allowed to expire.

Immigration law is a rare specialty in the Brazilian legal community.聽 You can try a search on jusbrasil.com, a professional site that matches attorneys and clients.聽 Include "direito internacional" in your search:聽 immigration law is treated as a category of international law here.

jc1234 Active member

80POSTS

6 years ago

#24

Texanbrazil wrote:
Unless it has changed, a green card based on marriage can be canceled in US.
Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) provides for you to become a lawful permanent resident on a conditional basis, based on marriage.
If she became an US citizen, no it will not be cancelled.
Did you marry and divorce in the US

As to RNE, did you list residence as her home? Do you have a BR residence? If you moved, did you update such with the PF.
Basically same in US. Does she have residence? Did she advise INS of change?

Yes we got married and divorced in the US. With conditional permanent residency, the condition can be removed even if divorced in US if granted at the first interview. The person seeking the green card needs to prove that it was a real marriage at their second interview without the spouse.

Yes I used her address in BR. I thought the same would apply, if I prove it was a real marriage then I would get to keep my RME.

jc1234 Active member

80POSTS

6 years ago

#25

abthree wrote:
As I stated above, the Pol铆cia Federal ordinarily won't act to revoke a CRNM on the basis of a divorce decree being filed at a cart贸rio, absent a complaint from the Brazilian spouse, so the visa agency in inaccurate to the extent that they may have implied that cancellation is automatic.聽

Most CRNMs for foreigners under 60 years of age have expiration dates and need to be renewed; since the basis of yours no longer exists, renewal is unlikely.聽 In principle, CRNMs are granted to foreigners with a tie to a Brazilian entity, either a person or a business, as a benefit to the Brazilian party.聽 With no Brazilian beneficiary, a CRNM will be allowed to expire.

Immigration law is a rare specialty in the Brazilian legal community.聽 You can try a search on jusbrasil.com, a professional site that matches attorneys and clients.聽 Include "direito internacional" in your search:聽 immigration law is treated as a category of international law here.

Thanks for the website, I will try to meet with one when I am in BR.

I do not plan on living in BR in anytime soon and now BR does not require a visa to enter with a US passport so entering is not an issue. I suppose when I am ready to live in BR I can apply for the retire in BR visa but that is not for another 25 years lol. But who knows what the visa laws will be like in 25 years so it would be ideal to be able to keep my RME. It will expire in 10 years but the laws for the ability to renew may change when it comes time for me to renew.

My main concern is staying valid for next 10 years. According to the visa agency, if I prove that I have strong ties in BR, I may be able to keep my RME.

abthree Brazil Expert

6415POSTS

6 years ago

#26

jc1234 wrote:
My main concern is staying valid for next 10 years. According to the visa agency, if I prove that I have strong ties in BR, I may be able to keep my RME.

That shouldn't be a problem,聽 as long as you don't let more than two years elapse between visits.

The retirement visa was eliminated for new applicants as part of the overall immigration law reform in 2017.

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

#27

How long have you been out of Brazil? As abthree pointed out max is 2 years and I would not let it come close to the max.
Again no retirement visa any more since 2017. Many immigration laws changed. Visa agency is not a good source. Consulate issues visa, but entering and residence is controlled by PF (MJ)

jc1234 Active member

80POSTS

6 years ago

#28

Texanbrazil wrote:
How long have you been out of Brazil? As abthree pointed out max is 2 years and I would not let it come close to the max.
Again no retirement visa any more since 2017. Many immigration laws changed. Visa agency is not a good source. Consulate issues visa, but entering and residence is controlled by PF (MJ)

I just got my RME this year. I will be in BR sometime this year.
So how can people retire in BR now?

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

#29

I retired and then moved to BR and obtained RNE (CRNM) once here. Over 60, the CRNM has no expiration.

abthree Brazil Expert

6415POSTS

6 years ago

#30

I'm retired also, but my permanent residency is based on being married to a Brazilian.聽 (My naturalization was recently approved, so that's moot anyway.聽

)聽 That basis continues to be available, as does investment of sufficient size.

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

#31

Oh that's right. Parabens abthree on citizenship!

abthree Brazil Expert

6415POSTS

6 years ago

#32

Thanks, Buddy!聽 Picking up RG today.聽

jc1234 Active member

80POSTS

6 years ago

#33

abthree wrote:
I'm retired also, but my permanent residency is based on being married to a Brazilian.聽 (My naturalization was recently approved, so that's moot anyway.聽 )聽 That basis continues to be available, as does investment of sufficient size.

So it is more important for me to be able to keep my RMN to be able to retire there one day since they got rid of the retirement visa.

My buddy in BR said I should not get the BR citizenship due to tax reasons.

abthree Brazil Expert

6415POSTS

6 years ago

#34

jc1234 wrote:
My buddy in BR said I should not get the BR citizenship due to tax reasons.

If you're Canadian,聽 that's certainly true:聽 Canada and Brazil have a tax treaty that's very favorable to expats.聽 The US doesn't,聽 so there I'm not aware of any tax disadvantages.聽聽The process is something of a hassle, though, and unlike permanent residency,聽 requires a technical level of Portuguese fluency that not all expats bother to acquire.

jc1234 Active member

80POSTS

6 years ago

#35

I emailed the BR consulate in US. They replied saying there is no more permanent visa for retirement in BR but they do have a temporary visa for retirement as of Nov 2019.

Requirements seem to be the same though, 2,000 USD per month pension.

abthree Brazil Expert

6415POSTS

6 years ago

#36

jc1234 wrote:
I emailed the BR consulate in US. They replied saying there is no more permanent visa for retirement in BR but they do have a temporary visa for retirement as of Nov 2019.

Requirements seem to be the same though, 2,000 USD per month pension.

Interesting!聽 Did they give you the name/number of the visa (e.g., "VITEM XIV")?

abthree Brazil Expert

6415POSTS

6 years ago

#37

Temporary Visa for Retirement.
As jc234 reported, this visa has been restored.聽 the authoritative document is:
"Resolu莽茫o Normativa No. 40, de 2 de Outubro de 2019", published in the Di谩rio Oficial da Uni茫o on November 27, 2019.聽 You can read it here:聽聽
Initial validity is for two years; terms of renewal are left to future Normative Resolutions.聽 One of the requirements is proof of health insurance valid in Brazil.

GuestPoster367 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#38

Very good info...

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

6 years ago

#39

Great information.
I agree with medical insurance being an obstacle. Depending on age and rate increase, premiums will take a good percentage of the minimum $2K U$D.
Cannot rely on SUS it appears.

GuestPoster367 Guest

0POSTS

6 years ago

#40

Less responsibility for the govt. Funds are short appropriated for free health care. Very long lines and many patients are sent home and are asked to come the next day.