Is KITAP holder allowed to work? Thank you for your time page 2 - Indonesia forum

Is KITAP holder allowed to work? Thank you for your time

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

Under a KITAS a work permit is required...100%, and no questions.

Under a KITAP there is ambiguity as Pak Fred has described.

bundyrum Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

#42

manpower overstep the mark they have no hold over a family being supported...they'll tell u different just scare tactits and lookn for money..u don't need a work permit to support your family in a modest way.and on a spouse kitas i wrote the laws here somewhere...it's jus a lasy president聽 has to ratify it...it has been passed in parliment.

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#43

bundyrum wrote:
manpower overstep the mark they have no hold over a family being supported...they'll tell u different just scare tactits and lookn for money..u don't need a work permit to support your family in a modest way.and on a spouse kitas i wrote the laws here somewhere...it's jus a lasy president聽 has to ratify it...it has been passed in parliment.

As long the President did not make it final (which is overdue) you still need to be aware of that you most likely have to deal with the Manpower to legally work here.

You definitely can not just work for any company without work permit and the DPKK of USD 1.200 not being paid on a spouse sponsored KITAP.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#44

I'm pretty sure UU6/2011was ratified.

bundyrum Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

#45

goood news fred.

bundyrum Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

#46

true but not talkn about a company just supporting yer family...manpower will leave u alone..u r only helping yer indo family and spending money here.it's tjhe people earning heaps, payn no tax..etc:thats who they want..we all know of
westerners on tourist visas using an indo as a front earning heaps and payn chit wages..but not my business..watever.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#47

Under a KITAP and working for your family business I wouldn't worry about it either, but under a KITAP and working for another non "related" company without a work permit could raise potential problems.

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#48

That's how I see it also.

But if you discuss further, what is "family business"??

Does it mean your spouse owns her/his own company, a CV, PT for example and the partner is assisting in all matters but how about there is no company how you then can can financially respectively try to get income to support??

Most likely you do business in here, earn money but don't pay tax since officially you have no work permit and no salary to declare....

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#49

In my mind I am using "family business" to mean those businesses owned by one spouse Indonesian and the other spouse something else than Indonesian.

I know several folks in Bali who fit this perfectly...owning restaurants, a small hotel and jewelry聽 manufacturing and they've all put aside the KITAS and Work Permit for a KITAP.聽聽The monetary savings are significant.

Anshory Member

1POSTS

10 years ago

#50

Hello, please confirm that spouse here being husband or wife. Sorry, sometimes Indonesian law is rather gender-biased. My wife's KITAP is sponsored by me. Thanks.

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

10 years ago

#51

What is exactly your question?

hany1111 Active member

33POSTS

10 years ago

#52

Your post in the right time....do you know agency in jakarta to get mr kitas...i have company to sponsor me....Regards

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

10 years ago

#53

There are a number of agents doing it.

Just be alerted that not all do perform, many promising a lot of things before but in the end fail to get it done.

You have to assure that the agent is fully update with the rules and regulations.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

10 years ago

#54

Anshory wrote:
Hello, please confirm that spouse here being husband or wife. Sorry, sometimes Indonesian law is rather gender-biased. My wife's KITAP is sponsored by me. Thanks.

Not at all, at least not for KITAP.
A long time ago, an Indonesian woman could not sponsor her husband for anything to do with immigration, but that's changed now.
The law is the same either way around.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

10 years ago

#55

hany1111 wrote:
Your post in the right time....do you know agency in jakarta to get mr kitas...i have company to sponsor me....Regards

Go to your local immigration office.
There are always several agent's offices near immigration, or agents hanging about in the building.
You might well find an immigration officer doing a bit of moonlighting as an agent.

No suggestions of bribes or anything underhand here, save them doing a bit of work on the side.

galaxynexus Member

2POSTS

10 years ago

#56

I'm not sure where the distinction between KITAS and KITAP in this case is all coming from. The UU 6 / 2011 pasal 61 clearly says:

"Pemegang Izin Tinggal terbatas sebagaimana dimaksud
dalam Pasal 52 huruf e dan huruf f dan pemegang Izin
Tinggal Tetap sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat
(1) huruf b dan huruf d dapat melakukan pekerjaan
dan/atau usaha untuk memenuhi kebutuhan hidup
dan/atau keluarganya. "

Roughly translates to include KITAS holder of category e (spouse of WNI) and f (children of category e) and KITAP holder of category b (spouse of WNI) and d (ex-WNI) "can do work for his/her (family) needs".

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

10 years ago

#57

Basically correct......as long as it is kind of family business which is run by your spouse.

Still you can get in trouble if you start officially working for a company without having a work permit not paying DPKK etc.

Immigration and Ministry of Manpower have different point of view in this respect.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

10 years ago

#58

6/2011 P61 has been under debate for ages.
The law, as was said, clearly allows holders to work, but manpower say, "yes, but only if they have a work permit from us".

These seems to be no argument about KITAP holders doing informal work in a family business, or even a few visits to schools or whatever, but NOT to work full time in a contracted job.

I've been looking for a case where a KITAP holder has been arrested for working full time, but I can't find one as yet. I know a few advertised they were working, daring manpower to take them to court.

Anyone know of any?

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

10 years ago

#59

I haven't heard of any problems here in Bali where the foreign spouse under KITAP is working for their Indonesian spouse's (family) business.聽 But, I have heard of some cases where foreigners have been fined if caught working (contracted job) before the work permit was actually issued even though the proper applications and payments had been made.

ChristianAC New member

7POSTS

8 years ago

#60

I have been on a spousal KITAP since 2015. I have worked for major companies on this KITAP and these companies have gladly provided me with the work permit (IMTA). Now I am contemplating doing independent consulting to the mining industry but I am now running into very grey areas. The law says I can work to support my wife & family here without an IMTA. Immigration have confirmed this. My problems start when I speak to a family friend who works in the Dept of Manpower (Depnaker). He says I cannot work for a company without a work permit. He does however say I can work as an "entrepreneur" without an IMTA. When I told him I considered independent consulting as being an entrepreneur, he disagreed. By "entrepreneur" he meant I could make Bakso in my kitchen and sell it from a trolley in the street. Alternatively, I could work for my wife's "company". This assumes she has one. Does this mean my wife needs to start her own company to allow me to ply my skills or do I need to learn how to make Bakso?
Consulting, by it's very nature, usually only lasts for several weeks. It is totally unrealistic to expect any company to go to the trouble of getting a work permit for me just for a few weeks work. And then repeat the process for the next consulting job. This seems totally ludicrous but my Depnaker friend says this is the case. I know of no company that would do this.
Is it possible for my wife to get me an IMTA without having her own company and we pay the US$1,200 training levy ourselves? Or do I get a friend who does have a PT company to sponsor my IMTA?
If my wife had married a Bakso vendor there would not be a problem but she didn't. She married a professional engineer who cannot work simply because he is not a Bakso vendor.
Any advice here will be greatly appreciated.

bundy2 Banned

65POSTS

8 years ago

#61

with a Kitap or spouse kitas u can only work to help the family live...ie: if yer wife owns a Warong..u can help in there..u can get a Kitap if u have been here 2 years married to an indonesian,,,I tried it,,and was abused by immigration..had my wife in tears..a/hole.sayn i had to have a kitas for so long...which is completely incorrect.i even had a printout..he was using 1990,s,laws..the 2 year marriage to get a Kitap wAS RATIFIED by Bum Bum IN 2013...TO MAKE IT LAW,,SO I JUST STAY ON MY kITAS..After your 1st,, 5 years on a Kitap..for the next 5 years will cost u a bit of money..bit of a tricky 1 u being on a company Kitas..if u want a spouse Kitap...u will have to have a spouse Kitas..and I think it must be current when u swap over or u can try to do it direct....good luck...Yer wife will be your sponser.cheers..

bundy2 Banned

65POSTS

8 years ago

#62

the problem arises..when u do commercial work..that is when Manpower will get involved..otherwise..small working..mostly with in the family..they don.t have power.

ChristianAC New member

7POSTS

8 years ago

#63

Hi Fred. I am on a spouse sponsored KITAP and gained employment with a palm oil company in Kalimantan. The company provided my IMTA (Work Permit) and I retained my KITAP. The company was NOT required to get me a KITAS. My spouse sponsored KITAP was fine by all concerned including Depnaker and Immigration. 3 years later I have left this job and been offered a new job in Jakarta. But now I am being told I cannot wirk on a spouse sponsored KITAP even if the new company provides my IMTA. The HR people at the new company are being told I must surrender my current KITAP and go back onto a company provided KITAS before an IMTA can be issued. So now I am both very confused and pissed off. Has someone got the wrong end of the stick here?

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

8 years ago

#64

Unless the law has changed of late and I've totally missed it ...

Your spouse sponsored KITAP should be acceptable to the manpower people and immigration.
Check with the issuing immigration office but there should be no problem at all.
One note if it's of interest. If you have been here for 5 years continuously, you can apply for citizenship so getting rid of the restrictions and messing around.

bundy2 Banned

65POSTS

8 years ago

#65

As far as I know your spouse聽 Kitap..is the same as your spouse聽 Kitas...u can only work in a family聽 buisiness ..like a warong..work is only allowed to help your family...for living..Manpower is not involved in this..but If u work for a company then it.s a work聽 permit your company will have to get,,cheers.

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

8 years ago

#66

If you are on a wife sponsored visa you are allowed legally to work for a company as they still need to soonsor you and supply the right documents. Jakarta is a lot stricter than this than any where else.

The reason is that the company is liable if caught with people working illegally and also your wife could be in trouble.

Large companies stick to the rules more

Surrendering the wife visa is annoying but if there is the chance of being caught and deported as a result why risk it?

Redouanebouchiba New member

4POSTS

8 years ago

#67

Hi,
I'm from morocco and i wanna mary an indonesian girl next year, is it okey if i leave my job here and go work there? I mean if my wife is from indonesia will i have the right to work there?
Please tell me everything you know 馃檹馃徎

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

8 years ago

#68

Its more than OK for you to leave your job and come here thats up to you. Finding work on a Wife sponsored visa isn't a useful idea because whilst you can work arguing you need to support your family, any large company will need you be on a working visa.

The next thing to note is that if you wish to work here, you need to have a specific set of skills that an Indonesia people does not possess that only you can do. Then you need to find that company that needs that skill.

That is the most simple answer.

Redouanebouchiba New member

4POSTS

8 years ago

#69

I have 5 years experience in health insurance and i also can speak 3 languages (english, arabic and french) + i have master in international business
Do u think i have chances there?

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

8 years ago

#70

I dont know. What field of business do you want to work in. You need to look for employers before you come in the your field of expertise before you do.

Redouanebouchiba New member

4POSTS

8 years ago

#71

Alright, thank you so much man.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

8 years ago

#72

Redouanebouchiba wrote:
Hi,
I'm from morocco and i wanna mary an indonesian girl next year, is it okey if i leave my job here and go work there? I mean if my wife is from indonesia will i have the right to work there?
Please tell me everything you know 馃檹馃徎

Marriage is no issue and will likely get you a KITAS but that doesn't allow work without a work permit.
A work permit requires you to have skills unavailable from the local workforce.

abdulkhalil Banned

684POSTS

8 years ago

#73

Redouanebouchiba wrote:
I have 5 years experience in health insurance and i also can speak 3 languages (english, arabic and french) + i have master in international business
Do u think i have chances there?

I don't think your languages are much use here and neither the Masters because everyone has got one these days. Also, health insurance isn't going to get you a job unless some International Insurance company is looking for an expat to run their operations here, but I don't think you'd qualify. Sorry to be so blunt. You might try applying for a job in Indonesia but search for it overseas so that you could be sent here as an Expat. If you simply look for a job here I don't think you will get much success. And if I were you I would accept any job even in completely different fields, not just in insurance.

Redouanebouchiba New member

4POSTS

8 years ago

#74

Yeah you are right, but i'm gonna get maried there so i don't care what where im gonna work, i just need to find a job in any field.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

8 years ago

#75

Redouanebouchiba wrote:
Yeah you are right, but i'm gonna get maried there so i don't care what where im gonna work, i just need to find a job in any field.

You can't get a wok permit unless you have skills unavailable from the local workforce.
Illegal work is a very bad idea.

ChristianAC New member

7POSTS

8 years ago

#76

Hi Fred, been here over 24 years. Not sure I'm ready to give up my Australian citizenship. I'd rather wait for Jokowi to allow dual citizenship.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

8 years ago

#77

That's likely to happen as the political situation allows.

Muhammad Nazakat Active member

28POSTS

2 years ago

#78

@happyhour....Its means Indonesian laws not supported to foreigners. I married September 2021 and going to apply for 5 years Permanent Residence(PR) 5years KITAP. But somone said I still need a work permit.

What about when I will get Indonesian Passport?....why Indonesian laws are so strict for the foreigners?. please answer. thank you